The British hip-hop subgenre grime first started to bubble up in London in the early aughts. Artists like Wiley and Dizzee Rascal developed an entirely new style by rapping over lightning-fast beats inspired by UK garage, techno and jungle.

Today’s guest, Stormzy is at the forefront of grime’s newest generation. He rose to prominence in 2015 after uploading a video to YouTube where he freestyled over classic grime tracks. Since then Stormzy has released three number one albums in the UK, won three Brit Awards, and become the first British rapper to headline the Glastonbury festival.

Just before releasing his third album, This Is What I Mean, Stormzy met up with Rick Rubin in London for a cover story from i-d Magazine’s Royalty issue. This is the recording of that conversation. On today’s episode we’ll hear Stormzy play Rick songs from his new album, and explain why he decided to consider his audience last when recording it. And Stormzy talks about how a painful break-up and trusting God helped lead him to a new melodic, soulful sound.

You can listen to a playlist of some of our favorite Stormzy songs HERE.

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