Martin Shaw and Mark Vernon return for a second conversation following Martin’s embrace of Orthodox Christianity. The first conversation, entitled The Mossy Face of Christ, can be found on my YouTube channel.

They discuss what is happening with the apparent resurgence of interest in Christianity, not least in relation to Martin’s new course, The Skin-Boat and the Star. How can we discern the times and best participate in it?

They explore the legacy of Christianity that can be such a block for people today and how the withdrawal of faith in contemporary culture may be a precursor to a rediscovery. They ask about the different styles of Christianity that are emerging amongst the so-called New Christians and how to discern the spirits.

Martin discusses the way in which his quest has not ceased but become more focused, transformed by unexpected depths. Mark asks about living in modern times and resisting the temptation to invoke a negative energy, but instead .

They explore the teaching of Jesus and being in the world whilst not wholly of it, as well as subversive acts of beauty that bring light and levity to the gravity of the moment.

For more on Martin Shaw see - http://drmartinshaw.com/
For more on Mark Vernon see - https://www.markvernon.com/

00:00 The unfolding of Martin's experience
02:32 The Skin-Boat gathering
06:44 Why Christianity puts people off
10:50 Understanding participation
15:07 Beauty and pinpricks of eternity
20:57 Being in the world and not of if
26:51 Political and spiritual power
32:04 What are you going to stand for
36:50 Finite life and infinite desire
40:40 Deepening the quest not ending it
41:39 The paths that lead to God
44:41 The centrality of devotion
49:01 Losing life to find it
55:47 Theosis in the western tradition
01:00:01 Mysticism and the Christianity of tomorrow
01:05:25 Injecting joy into the machine
01:10:10 The love that sees over horizons
01:15:17 Why Jesus stunned people
01:20:21 Dialogue and yearning for God