John speaks with Dr. Nigel Biggar and Dr. Stephen Chavura to explore the complexities of history, challenging one-sided narratives of colonisation and conflict. Their discussion sheds light on the nuanced relationships between settlers and Indigenous peoples, revealing both moments of mutual respect and undeniable tragedy. The discussion emphasises an understanding of history within its true context, free from oversimplifications. They also examine contemporary issues affecting Indigenous Australians, including the widening gaps in remote communities despite progressive policies. Each of them advocate practical solutions that focus on integration, education, and equal justice, rather than divisive narratives perpetuating victimhood. Dr. Nigel Biggar CBE is Emeritus Regius Professor of Moral and Pastoral Theology at the University of Oxford, author and theologian. His most recent books are Colonialism: A Moral Reckoning (William Collins, 2023) and What’s Wrong with Rights? (Oxford University Press, 2020). Dr. Stephen Chavura teaches European and Australian history at Campion College, Sydney. His most recent (co-authored) books are The Forgotten Menzies: The Mind of Australia's Longest-Serving Prime Minister (Melbourne University Publications, 2021), and Reason, Religion and the Australian Polity: A Secular State? (Routledge, 2019).