The business case for engineering ops is really around any efficiencies that exist in the way that engineers are using their time. I talk to my manager who leads engineering at a sauna and pulling up things like if we can save every engineer you know like seven minutes we are at a scale where that is generating brand new engineers. It's gotten easier to track this so little things like meeting time, how much focus time exists in our engineering org per engineer. And then we can do like analytics on top of calendars using a set of tools. Other things like the amount of time that people spend looking for documentation or asking the same help question to get unblocked because it's not easily discoverable