How should followers of Jesus navigate boundaries in relationships across gender lines, especially in leadership and workplace settings? Mike Erre and Andy discuss the ethics and implications of the “Billy Graham Rule” after a listener question sparks thoughtful reflection on Vice President Mike Pence’s commitment never to dine alone with a woman other than his wife. Drawing from biblical principles, personal experience, and cultural critique, they unpack the tension between honoring marital fidelity while also recognizing the unintended consequences of such personal convictions—especially for women in leadership.

This wide-ranging conversation explores not only the historical origins of the Billy Graham Rule but also what it reveals about power, temptation, gender dynamics, and spiritual formation. At the heart is the challenge to move beyond compliance to external boundaries and instead become the kind of person who naturally chooses integrity, trust, and love.

Key Takeaways: • Understanding the “Billy Graham Rule” – Its origins, motivations, and how leaders like Mike Pence have applied it in politics. • Protecting Marriages vs. Disempowering Women – Why well-intentioned boundaries can unintentionally limit women’s access to opportunity and reinforce harmful gender stereotypes. • The Role of Lust and the Heart – Jesus’s deeper teaching on lust and adultery shifts the focus from circumstances to spiritual formation. • Cultural and Generational Gaps – How Millennials and Gen Xers engage the workplace differently, and why older frameworks may fall short today. • Becoming a Safe Person – Why avoiding temptation isn’t enough and how integrity is formed in private, not just enforced by rules.

Notable Quotes: • “Marriage is hard work. Every marriage will reach a place where one or both partners wonder, ‘Did I make a mistake?’ That’s when boundaries can help—but only for a season.” • “Jesus didn’t merely avoid the appearance of evil—he was sometimes accused of it. His focus wasn’t appearances. It was love.” • “The goal is to become the kind of person who is safe—around anyone.”

Resources Mentioned: • Genesis 1 – God's design for male and female partnership • Matthew 5:27–28 – Jesus’s teaching on adultery and lust • The Billy Graham Rule background: Wikipedia – Billy Graham rule • Ray Vander Laan’s teachings – Cultural insights into Jesus’s world • Close Calls by Dave Carder – Exploring the stages and warnings of near-affair situations

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Follow Mike on Twitter: twitter.com/mikeerre Music by Timothy John Stafford Follow him: @GoneTimothy on Instagram & Twitter

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