i'm interested in what ways, or how did you learn earn more of the creative part of marketing. And i think there's a lot of founders that tend to be much more technical and tend to come from a more quantitatively rigorous world. So as curious, does anything come to mind for you where my own sort of progression is concerned? I think it was very gradual. But creative has certainly been an important aspect of that. It also helped me with understanding the diversity of skulls that a marketing team can bring to day.

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