2min chapter

Desert Island Discs cover image

Anthony Joshua, boxer

Desert Island Discs

CHAPTER

Reflecting on Family and Meaningful Conversations in Total Darkness

The speaker recounts a five-day experience in complete darkness to disconnect and contemplate, highlighting the significance of engaging in meaningful conversations with family and dedicating quality time to loved ones beyond material assistance.

00:00
Speaker 2
Well,
Speaker 3
let's get some more now from the conference itself. COP is the biggest annual conference on climate change. Of course, it was established when 197 countries signed the 1992 UN Framework Convention on Climate Change. And the meetings happen every year. Some years, though, are more significant than others. This year's COP is being held in the oil-dependent nation of Azerbaijan. The second year in a row, of course, that it's being held in a petro state, and one that's been very important to Europe since Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
Speaker 2
Joining us now from Baku in Azerbaijan our Horizons Middle East and Africa anchor, Jumana Bissetji. Jumana, thank you for being with us. So what is the aim then of discussions at this year's COP29? Why does this COP matter?
Speaker 1
Thank you. The background to all of this is COP29 was never going to be as big as last year's COP in Dubai or the upcoming COP that's going to take place in Brazil next year. It's been dubbed the finance COP as negotiators are hoping to develop plans to unlock more financial resources to both aid with the transition and help countries adapt to the effects of climate change. Now, one area of particular focus will be the amount of money that goes from rich countries to developing countries. And this is an acronym known as the NCQG, the New Collective Quantified Goal. This was a target that was set back in 2009. The goal was for rich countries to provide $100 billion annually of loans and assistance to developing countries. And by the way, the year is 2024. That goal has only been met once, and it was met in 2022. Now, the target for this COP29 is for that number to be revised upwards. And this is where it gets a little bit tricky because estimates range from $300 billion annually to north of trillions of dollars annually that is needed in assistance to help with these developing countries coming at a time, of course, where many fiscal budgets are coming under pressure. And of course, you have to take into consideration the geopolitical backdrop with wars raging in Europe, the Middle East, China-U tensions running high, and of course, the re-election of President Trump as well, which could all sort of take the agenda away from the focus of this COP, which is financing and delivering on prior commitments, as opposed to some of the other things that are happening in the world right now that are diverting leaders' attentions.
Speaker 3
So finance very much in focus. Jumana, who's at the conference? And more importantly, who's not there? Any notable absences?
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, as I mentioned, it's a slightly smaller COP in nature than usual. I mean, I say smaller, but they are still expecting more than 60,000 people from all over the world to be here, policymakers, leaders, delegations. But there are definitely fewer world leaders. Sir Keir Starmer is here. The Finnish president, Alexander Stubb, is also here. I spoke to him a short while ago. A notable absence of leaders from China. President Xi is not here. President Biden is not here. Chancellor Scholz, President Macron not attending. And then Italian Prime Minister Giorgio Maloney is here as well. So you are getting a decent turnout from senior leadership, but many leaders from around the world have decided not to attend this time around.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. So then the other thing to mention, of course, the shadow of President-elect Donald Trump. How much is that looming over discussions? Obviously, you said President Biden is not there, but neither is President-elect Donald Trump. And he is a strong, still a strong climate skeptic.
Speaker 1
Even though President-elect Donald Trump is not here, his presence looms large. And it has been a topic of conversation for every single one of the discussions that we've had, namely because if you look back over the last couple of years, the U.S. actually has led the way on many of these climate efforts. The U.S. gained a lot of credibility with the passage of the Inflation Reduction Act, and the very return of President Trump throws a lot of that leadership into doubt. Remember, this is a president who ran on a campaign of drill, baby drill, wanting to increase the amount of fossil fuel production that is coming out of the U.S. He has talked about repealing subsidies, tax cuts on some of the clean energy initiatives that are in place, repealing some of the incentives to buy electric vehicles. And then of particular note and of concern one of the first decisions that President Trump took back in 2017 was to withdraw the U.S. from the Paris 2015 Accords, which enshrines that 1.5 degrees global warming target. Should he do that again? It again raises a lot of questions about where leadership on reducing emissions is going to come from in the absence of the US. And some people are even concerned about him going one step further and entirely pulling out of the UN framework, which makes it very difficult for the US to get back into the framework again, because that would require a two thirds Senate majority approval. So, yes, it definitely has appended a lot of the discussions that are taking place here.
Speaker 3
Just give us a temperature check, if you'll excuse the pun, on how the world is doing on the green transition. It's expected this year will be the hottest year ever, the first full year to surpass one and a half degrees above pre-industrial levels when it comes to the global temperature. But how is the world doing when it comes to that process?
Speaker 1
Unfortunately, the world is not doing well. At COP28, so this was the COP that took place in Dubai, a global stock take took place, the five-year review of how the world is doing versus those targets that were set back in 2015 with the Paris Accord. We are way off target. You just mentioned global emissions rose to a new record in 2023. Scientists in the EU are saying that it's virtually certain that 2024 will be the hottest year on record. The International Renewable Energy Agency says that current country pledges could cut energy-related emissions by 3% by 2030. That's just 3% by 2030 and 51% by 2050. So the only way you're going to meet those goals is if governments actually deliver on the commitments that have been put in place. Some of the major commitments that came out of COP28 last year include the tripling of renewables by 2030, increasing energy efficiency, transitioning away from fossil fuels, creating loss and damage funds, discussions around methane emissions, and of course, securing that financing that we spoke about as well. So in the absence of them following through on those commitments, it does seem increasingly unlikely that we're going to be able to secure those objectives that were laid out in the 2015 Paris framework.
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely. And then just thinking about, you know, who is there? I know you've been speaking to a host of political leaders, business and climate leaders. But in and of itself, the hosting of this COP in Azerbaijan has been controversial. About 90% of Azerbaijani exports are oil and gas based. And this was also a criticism of the COP last year, as you mentioned, in Dubai and the Middle East. And what are your takeaways in terms of the concerns around greenwashing and what this shows, I suppose, about the process and the concerns around that?
Speaker 1
We've talked about attendance, and I think there are real concerns from not just climate advocacy groups, but leaders around the world, that the actual location for this COP is set in Azerbaijan. This is the countries you mentioned, 90% reliance on hydrocarbons, more than 40, 50% of the GDP is derived from the exports of oil and gas. So there is something to be said for the choice of this important climate discussion. But at the same time, I think in the last couple of years, there has also been a recognition that you need to have all stakeholders involved. These types of discussions can't just take place at a singular level. They have to be multilateral talks taking place at country level, but also introducing the energy companies. actually at COP28 in Dubai was the first time you saw active participation from the likes of the biggest energy companies around the world and you will also remember that back in COP28 new language was introduced in the communique vis-a fossil fuels and the gradual phasing out of fossil fuels now Now, it comes with a lot of caveats. But the point is that I think there is a global understanding now that all stakeholders need to play their part, including some of the most serial offenders when it comes to emissions.

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