Bionic Am's First Customer and Beta Tester

Startups solve real problems. During the boom times, the media focuses on the multi-billion-dollar valuations and the mega-IPOs. But even in those times, founders are innovating in the background and using technology to just make the world a better place. Today we talk with Sun Xiaojun, who started BionicM in 2015 as a way to replace the limb that he lost when he was a child.  And since then, he has built the startup into much more. We talk about the challenges he had to overcome to bring innovative medical technology to market, why Japanese universities still struggle to productize their impressive deep-tech,  and why the world has been thinking about prosthetic limbs all wrong for thousands of years. It's a great conversation, and I think you'll enjoy it. Show Notes Why powered prosthetics are a game-changer The challenges of being your own first beta-tester How coming to Japan changed Sunny's life How prosthetics are fitted and sold Go to market strategy and discovering the true customer Total addressable market size User feedback, human variation,  and future changes How people are using the bionic leg as a fashion statement How Japanese professors make product development difficult Why it is often so hard for Japanese startups to sell to Japanese consumers Links from the Founders Everything you wanted to know BionicM Follow Sunny on Twitter @Bio_Leg Friend him on Facebook Connect with him on LinkedIn A great article about BionicM Transcript Welcome to Disrupting Japan. Straight Talk from Japan's most successful entrepreneurs. I'm Tim Romero and thanks for joining me. Today we're going to talk about bionic legs, the real deal, a battery powered below the knee powered prosthetic leg that is already being used by amputees all over the world, and it looks pretty good too. We're going to sit down with Xiaojun Sun or Sunny, as he likes to be called. The founder, and CEO of BionicM who lost his leg when he was nine and spent the next 15 years determined to do something about that, and he did. BionicM is a Japanese startup creating artificial limbs that are not just functional or practical or good enough, but are different and innovative and well, to be honest, kind of cool. We're going to talk a lot about Sunny's journey and the BionicM prosthetic leg, but we also talk about why it's easier to launch this kind of product in America, despite the stricter certification requirements. The challenges in figuring out who the actual customers for artificial limbs really are and why Japanese universities have so much trouble getting their deep tech startups out of the labs and into the market. But, you know, Sunny tells that story much better than I can. So, let's get right to the interview. Interview Tim: We're sitting here with Sunny Xoajun, the founder and CEO of BionicM who makes a robotic prosthetic leg, and thanks for sitting down with us. Sunny: Ah, thank you. I'm very glad to be here. Tim: So, I've given a brief description of what you do, but I'm sure you can explain what BionicM does much better than I can. So, what does BionicM do? Sunny: Yeah, we are a startup company, spin of the Tokyo University. We are building a powered prosthetic leg to have the handicap improve their mobility. Tim: Why is the powered prosthetic leg important? What's the important part of having the active? Sunny: Currently, most of the prosthetic is unpowered. We're developing something different from the current products which has a power to have user walk more easily. Perhaps do something which they couldn't do with current products. Tim: It's battery powered electric motors. What does this leg do for users that passive prosthetic legs cannot do? Sunny: For example, it's very difficult for some elderly amputee to stand up because when they stand up with the passive prosthetic, there is low power to help them, so they have to rely on their sound leg. If their sound leg doesn't work very well, it's difficult for them to stand up. Tim: Okay. So, the power in the BionicM leg duplicates the muscle power that is in a regular human leg for things like standing up from chairs or going up and down stairs and things like that. Sunny: Yeah, you're right. It works like a muscle. So, it will give a power to have user do something. For example, when they use it to stand up, they can get the power from the prosthetic. So, it's easier for the user to stand up, of course they can do something like going upstairs or downstairs. Tim: Okay. And I want to really dig into the details later, but it's fascinating. So, it's battery powered and so how long does it last on the charge? Is it charged like once a day? The user uses it all day. Sunny: It can be charged fully for three or four hours. So, it can last for one day. Tim: Oh, okay. So, users just charge it overnight? Sunny: Yeah, yeah. Right. Tim: And how much does it weigh? Sunny: It's about three kilogram. Tim: Three kilos? Yeah. Oh, that seems quite light. Sunny: Yeah, we did a lot of work to make it light weight. So yeah, it's quite light weight. Tim: And tell me about your customers. Who's using BionicM now? Sunny: Right now we are just commercialized our product this year, so we'll develop our product to the US market. So, right now we're developing some kind of business in the US. So, we hope amputee in the US could use our product. Tim: So, now it's just in sort of the testing and evaluation phases? Sunny: Yes. We have done every test, right now we will manufacture our product in September. So, we are applying for the FDA in September. And then we will sell our product in the next year. Tim: Well, and I understand you are BionicM's first customer and beta tester yourself, right? Sunny: Yeah, you are totally right. In fact, I started to do this research while at the university. At the beginning I tried the prototype by myself and did many improvement. After we build the company, I'm also the first user to try every new prototype. I have used this prototype for over two years. Tim: Just to make sure our listeners understand what that statement means, can you tell a little bit about your own story, about why this is a special passion for you? Sunny: Yes. I got my right leg amputated when I was nine years old because of the bone cancer. At that time, there was difficult for me to afford a prosthesis, so I worked with a crutch for 15 years. 10 years ago, I got a chance to study in Japan, and then I got my first prosthesis, some financial support in Japan. It was great. It changed my life, and for the first time my hands could be free. I can do something which I didn't do before. Tim: So, it's like your first time not on crutches since you were nine years old? Sunny: Yeah, it's quite difficult because when you walk with a crutch, I cannot hold the umbrella when it's rainy. I cannot take my own something or I go to restaurant. So, that's quite tough. Tim: Wow. And what happened then? Sunny: It was great at the beginning, but after I use the product a lot, I also found there was some issue of current products. I was an engineer in Sony, so I was wondering whether I could design better product for myself and other people. After I think a lot I should do this. So, I quit my job and then came back to the university as a PhD student. And then I began to do this research in my PhD study. Tim: So, the BionicM project was started in 2015? Sunny: Yeah, 2015. Yeah. Tim: And let's see, just so we can get the timeline. So, 2015 is when you started this research project? Sunny: Yeah. Tim: And Bionic and the company you started a few years later? Sunny: Yes. in 2018 I got my PhD degree, and then at the end of the 2018, I built this company. Tim: And you've gotten a steady stream of awards? I can't list them all here because the podcast is not that long. But both in Japan and overseas. So, have these awards led to partnerships overseas, have they led to increased funding? Sunny: Yeah. First I know many people. So, some of them are investors, we talk about the investment about our company. And besides, we want to develop our business in some countries so they can introduce some people. Some people I think it's a great chance to expand our level work, to know more people, to know more investors. Tim: So, let's talk a bit more about the product itself. So, what's the total cost for the user of these prosthetics? Sunny: In fact, in the US it's covered by the insurance. So, the reimbursement will be the $45,000. Tim: So $45,000 in the US and similar price in Japan? Sunny: Yeah. Similar in Japan. Tim: And it is that high, is that low? Is that average for prosthetics in general? Sunny: It's quite high because it's the high end product, so because it has a power, so it's better than the current high end product. So, it's higher than current high end product. Tim: Okay. What's been the reaction from the test users so far? Sunny: Yeah, we did many tests in Japan, and we are also doing some tests in US. We got a lot of feedback, for example they found that it's easier, it's less tiring for them to use our product. It's easier for them to stand up with our leg because when they use some traditional product, it's quite difficult for them to stand up. Tim: What's involved when someone is fitted for a bionic and prosthetic leg? What's the process? Is there a lot of customization and training for each user? Is there a period where the user needs to be trained on how to use it? What's the whole process? Sunny: Our product is standard which means it's a mass production product. We don't do any customization, but each amputee has different heights. So, some customization should be done in this process. So, we will sell our product to the prosthetic clinic where they will do the customization for the end user.