Ian Clark runs Crescendo Consulting, helping companies monetize AI features. He's advised leadership teams on packaging, pricing metrics, and outcome-based models. And of course, he performed his obligatory stint at Simon Kutcher Partners.

In this episode, Ian challenges common misconceptions about AI pricing, explaining why cost-plus pricing is still wrong even with variable AI costs, how to choose the right pricing metrics beyond tokens, and why outcome-based pricing isn't the silver bullet many believe it to be.

Why you have to check out today's podcast:

Understand why AI costs shouldn't drive your pricing strategy, even when margins drop below traditional SaaS levels.
Learn how to identify pricing metrics that correlate with willingness to pay rather than falling into the token-based pricing trap.
Discover why outcome-based pricing for AI faces fundamental attribution problems that make it less viable than expected.

"The best way to get willingness-to-pay data and to understand where the value of your product comes from is by doing customer interviews, not the testing, not the data, customer interviews."

– Ian Clark

Topics Covered:

02:59 - Monetizing AI vs. SaaS. The surprising similarities between AI and SaaS pricing, and why cost-plus pricing remains a bad idea even with AI's variable costs.

05:17 - Pricing Strategy in AI.The gross margin threshold where revenue-optimizing and margin-optimizing prices diverge (50-60%), plus the potato chip pricing thought experiment.

09:35 - AI Pricing Strategies.Why token-based pricing is problematic and how to find the right pricing metric that correlates with willingness to pay.

12:24 - Pricing Strategies for AI Tools.Real-world case study of sales enablement AI: choosing between user-based vs. usage-based pricing based on wallet size indicators.

16:27 - Outcomes-based Pricing Skepticism.The attribution problem with outcomes-based pricing and why it's harder to implement than it appears, using grocery shrinkage AI as an example.

20:11 - Outcome-based Pricing for AI. Sierra's "resolved conversations" model critique and the ethics of incentivizing AI agents vs. human labor.

24:03 - Pricing and Value Creation.The three-layer value framework: actual economic value → perceived value → willingness to pay, accounting for risk, timing, and budget constraints.

26:39 - 10% Rule in Pricing Strategy.Debunking the "charge 10% of value created" rule with Y Combinator math showing how small variations (9X vs 11X) can dramatically impact company survival.

30:31 - Customer Interviews for Pricing Insights.Why customer interviews beat data analysis and A/B testing for understanding willingness to pay and pain points.

Key Takeaways:

"We have known for a very long time that cost-plus pricing is a really bad idea. And it's not the case that now suddenly that we have AI, now suddenly it's a good idea." - Ian Clark

"So the 10x rule, it's great, but it's just woefully insufficient. Why not 11x? Why not 9x? You actually don't know." - Ian Clark

"One thing that we like to say about pricing and monetization is that people think it's like architecture, but it really should be like gardening." - Ian Clark

People / Resources Mentioned:

Simon Kutcher Partners: https://www.simon-kucher.com/en
Alpine Investors: https://alpineinvestors.com/
James Wilton: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesdwilton/
Sierra: https://sierra.ai/
Fin AI: https://fin.ai/
Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/
McKinsey: https://www.mckinsey.com/

Connect with Ian Clark:

Connect with Mark Stiving:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
Email: mark@impactpricing.com

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