Yeah. I was like, three Paul's maybe you've

been doing it. But no, you know, like, it just, you know, trying to find any fucking thing funny out of like these situations because they're just so grim. You

almost need to, don't you? Because if you can't, I mean, also, something that I think is really under spoken about is the the toll and effect it has on our partners as well. Yeah. Because it's such a personal journey that as women we go through, it's happening in our bodies, it's happening to us that sometimes it feels like your partners are very separate to it, even though they're going through their own feelings of grief, their own feelings of inadequacy in terms of how they can support you. At this point in time, like, what was that doing to your relationship or how was Fisher responding to this? And I asked this because I remember him sharing a story on Instagram. And I don't know which pregnancy loss it was, but he

canceled a gig. Yeah, that was this one. Yeah,

I thought it might have been. I think there was something really special in that because you very rarely see men talk about miscarriage.

Yeah, it's definitely like a lot of people write to us and say, you know, look after each other, look after each other, because like this can make them or break people. And for us, we're very fortunate that it's definitely made us stronger. Yeah, I mean, I speak for probably most women who are going through this as well. Like, you feel so much guilt because you know, you both want babies and you feel like you're letting the team down a little bit and especially when you can't really get answers and you're not really, you think you're moving forward, but then you keep on having loss after loss. You just, you feel so guilty for them and you're ripping that experience of fatherhood from them as well. But for us, and I think, and I feel, I do feel so bad for Paul because, you know, I do say a lot. You don't understand like how I am deep down, like, and I feel so selfish saying that now looking at in hindsight, but you know, he's away a lot, obviously, because of his work and, you know, he's trying to support our family or our future family. And it must be so hard for him to watch me going through this. And he must feel, he feels so helpless in the sense that there's just not really much he can do about it. And, you know, I sit back at home like all the times I've been pregnant and don't go to a lot of the trips, but he must be also on the other side of the world thinking like, what happens if something goes wrong and I can't be there for her? And I try my best to support him as much. He doesn't like, he's a man's man. And you know, he doesn't really like to show that much emotion. But we definitely have, you know, our moments where we just sit there and hug in each other. And it's just like, you just say like, what, you know, so many wise and we are the best that we've ever been. We're so supportive of each other and we're so happy and we're so in love. And, you know, it's just like the little missing piece of the puzzle that we can't quite find to fit in yet. But yeah,

it definitely has made us stronger for sure. I think the whole experience. What is it like for you? I mean, you've created the most incredible community with Darling Shine and you speak so vulnerably and openly about everything that you've experienced and what infertility looks like. What is it like having to rehash that all the time? And I say this because I can only imagine from our experiences, we often get people who come up to us on the street who say, Oh, you spoke about that thing and that really helped me and it's amazing. It's a privilege to help people and to feel like you've been able to offer a bit of light to someone who's in their darkest time. But I also know it can come as a huge burden because you might be in a period where you feel okay, you feel like you're on top of your feelings about this. You know, it's always there in the back of your mind, but then people will come up and say, I want to talk to you about my fertility loss or the thing that happened to me or my miscarriage. And I know personally, for me, when we did a big episode around miscarriage, when I experienced my first one, and I was experiencing my second one, and I had people still being like, thank you so much for talking about your first one. But I was in the middle of it again. And that was super triggering for me. And I wonder what it's like knowing that like this must happen to you all the time. You know

what, actually, now that you say that I did listen to your very first miscarriage episode, and that was when I was when was do you remember what you that was?

Probably like four or five years ago now. So my oldest daughter, she's four, and it happened just before five years ago, haven't just before she was she was conceived. Yeah,

I think it must have just come out just before I had my first miscarriage. I actually still remember literally the exact place that I listened to it because that was like one of the most pivotal moments in my journey listening to it like, I

didn't know what I'm like, wow, it was so informative. I also felt at the time, this is going back five years ago, and there's been so much more conversation about it now, like so much. And

it's incredible to see that. Nothing. That was it. That was the only thing that there was that I

could find. Yeah, and I just, you know, and I think now, like, I'm so lucky I have two beautiful girls, but I felt like I was being punished. My experience was I feel like I was being punished for having an abortion in my early years, and I just, it was horrible. So, you know, the more that I hear people speak about it and talk about their experiences and, you know, being part of this club that no one wants to be a part of, but I just, I really, I really like hold so much admiration for the women who are kind of forging forward and being that light for other people. But I understand the burden that that

carries as well.