David Grush: Credentials and Limits

A Note from James:

Are UFOs real or not? For 80 years there have been credible whistleblowers saying the government recovered craft—and even bodies. That’s why I wanted Kent Heckenlively on, the author of Catastrophic Disclosure: The Deep State, Aliens, and the Truth. I’m not here to decide for you. I want to hear the best evidence, ask the obvious questions, and have you help me figure out if we actually got closer to the truth. Let’s find out together.

Episode Description:

n this episode, James sits down with Kent Heckenlively—attorney, journalist, and coauthor of Catastrophic Disclosure: The Deep State, Aliens, and the Truth—to stress-test the most serious UFO claims on the table right now. Kent argues that humanity is on the brink of a “catastrophic disclosure” moment where long-hidden crash retrieval programs, nonhuman technology, and even bodies will be forced into the open. James plays the role he knows best: friendly skeptic who wants receipts, definitions, and clear thinking.

Together they walk through recent congressional hearings, whistleblower testimony, the Yemen orb video, and those strange Peruvian mummies that look either like a bad hoax… or like something we truly don’t understand. They talk about how many people would have to keep secrets for decades, why the best deceptions are mostly true, and how scientific projects like Colossal Biosciences’ “de-extincted” dire wolves show both the promise and the hype of cutting-edge genetics.

The result isn’t a verdict on whether aliens are visiting us. It’s a framework. James and Kent map out a way to think about uncertainty, spin, and incentives—whether you’re trying to decide what you believe about UFOs, pandemics, financial crises, or any other story where the truth lives behind NDAs, classified briefings, and very human motives.

What You’ll Learn:

• James’s 85/15 rule for extraordinary claims—stay open without getting swept up.
• What makes the pilot/whistleblower testimony compelling—and what still doesn’t add up.
• How definitions and bureaucracy shape the narrative (e.g., how agencies say “not alien” without proving “explained”).
• A quick due-diligence checklist for wild stories (videos, “mummies,” pressers): provenance, incentives, cross-discipline sanity checks.
• Why institutional spin and media incentives matter—and how to discount them without becoming cynical.

Timestamped Chapters:

• [00:00] Cold Open — “If big institutions lie once, what else are they hiding?”
• [02:00] Kent’s stance: 85% “probably real,” 15% “maybe psyop—or brain glitches”
• [03:00] A Note from James — from skeptic to curious agnostic
• [04:16] Campfire confessions: trusted friends and the triangle in the Texas sky
• [06:29] From CIA exposes to UFOs: why this book took two years
• [07:00] 2023 hearings and “catastrophic disclosure” (vs. “controlled disclosure”)
• [10:06] Who is David Grusch? Why his language puzzles lawyers and persuades believers
• [12:32] Congress vs. intel: Burchett, Luna, oversight, and stonewalls
• [13:50] 25 investigations and a “mushroom cloud” excuse—when reports insult your intelligence
• [16:06] Firsthand witnesses: Dylan Borland and triangle craft near a NASA hangar
• [19:15] The hair-split: “real programs, correct personnel—just not alien”
• [23:30] Definition games: why “not alien” can still leave you with anomalies
• [25:06] Peru’s three-fingered “mummies”: scans, DNA claims, and what science would need next
• [30:43] Where the bodies are (allegedly) stored; who’s gotten access
• [33:42] Genetics sanity check: bananas, chimps, and why 70% similarity is strange here
• [34:05] Secrets and scale: could thousands keep quiet for 80 years? Greer’s 700 accounts
• [39:55] Before Sputnik: “vanishing stars” and odd plates in old sky surveys
• [42:53] NDAs, treason clauses, and why real whistleblowers are scared
• [44:25] James’s middle path: optimistic skeptic, not a cynic
• [48:28] The “Yemen orb” footage: multiple sensors, a Hellfire, and unanswered physics
• [50:30] Contact across a tech gap: Aztecs, galleons, and cell phones in 1025 AD
• [52:22] Nukes, Trinity, and why someone might be watching our arsenals
• [53:29] Quantum wormholes or “witches’ spells”? The story vs. the proof
• [55:27] Living with real unknowns and resisting team-sports thinking
• [55:59] Lightning round: the 100,000-year alien road-trip question

Additional Resources:

Guest & Book

• Catastrophic Disclosure: The Deep State, Aliens, and the Truth — Amazon listing. Amazon
• Kent Heckenlively author page (Amazon). Amazon

Hearings, Pilots & Whistleblowers

• Cmdr. David Fravor’s written statement to House Oversight (Tic-Tac). House Oversight Committee
• Ryan Graves — testimony & org. Congress.gov
• House UAP proceedings (hearing materials hub). Congress.gov

New Footage Referenced

• CBS News recap of Rep. Eric Burlison presenting the “Yemen orb” video. CBS News

Projects & People Mentioned

• Dr. Steven Greer — Disclosure Project site. Dr. Steven Greer
• VASCO Project (Vanishing & Appearing Sources). Vasco Project
• Colossal Biosciences — Dire-wolf project (and scientific explainer). Colossal

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.