Exploring the Difference Between Counteractive Change and Generative Change

Robert “Bob” Falconer has been bridging his long history of IFS and psychedelics together into the body of work that informs the conversation you will hear today.

Bob lays the groundwork for what Internal Family Systems therapy is; its foundational propositions about the nature of the mind; and both how IFS works and how therapists work with IFS to bring about healing.

From there we go into the unique benefit IFS has to offer psychedelic therapy and how to use IFS in both preparation for and integration of psychedelic experiences.

We also talk about generative change vs counteractive change; the harms of isolation and the healing of connection; the porous nature of the mind and relational nature of reality; and even Bob’s perspective on how to work with spirit entities, demons, and the intelligence of psychedelic medicines.

Enjoy

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For links to Bob's work, full show notes, and a link to watch this episode in video, head to bit.ly/ATTMind163

*** FULL TOPICS BREAKDOWN BELOW**

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Episode Breakdown

• (0:00) Opening
• (4:47) Thank you!
• (7:06) Interview begins
• (8:13) An introduction to Internal Family Systems IFS therapy
• (12:34) What makes IFS “parts work” unique; Self-energy
• (16:10) No bad parts; all parts have good intention
• (19:54) Most people are civil wars, IFS helps heal us into a symphony
• (23:12) How IFS addresses our wounded parts, e.g. our “exiles”
• (26:58) “Insight is the booby prize”
• (28:40) Counteractive change vs generative change
• (32:00) The unique benefit of IFS for psychedelic therapy
• (25:40) How Internal Family Systems therapy works best with psychedelics
• (42:04) Where IFS fits into psychedelic integration
• (46:26) Separating internal vs external change during our psychedelic integration
• (47:37) Living in troubled times; therapy with the potential for exponential growth
• (55:04) The mind is porous; reality is relational
• (1:03:05) Falconer’s perspective on spirit entities and demons
• (1:11:13) The utility of regarding the intelligence of the medicine as full spectrum personalities
• (1:17:50) Some discussion on regarding nature as full-spectrum personalities
• (1:23:15) The harms of isolation; the healing of connection
• (1:27:19) IFS with MDMA or Ketamine?
• (1:30:18) The specific nuances of doing IFS therapy with ketamine
• (1:34:52) Can protector parts block the effects of psychedelics?
• (1:40:31) We don’t always need support to have a great psychedelic experience, but it helps
• (1:44:31) Suggestions on integrating IFS into your personal psychedelic practice
• (1:48:39) A final offering for us from Robert Falconer
• (1:49:22) Closing

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• More Options: https://www.jameswjesso.com/support
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