Steve Jobs would make the importance of things that you couldn't even see in the laptop or the computers. He wanted those to be perfect as well, even though no one would see it. And similarly, David Pirel, I stopped by his studio and everything is laid out so beautifully. And he says it's very much on purpose; there's a clear intentionality. So I have, I feel myself respecting those products that those people create more because I know how much they value beauty.

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