Pastoral Theology - A PhD in Theology at Fuller Theological Seminary

"I kind of burned out on school and gravitated towards maybe more popular mega church sort of models of ministry," he says. "But then as I continued doing ministry for the next five years, it started to hunger for more depth ... that led me to reenroll after five years in a masters of theology program" He did a PhD at Fuller Theological Seminary with William Dernis and Rich Mao while still working as a pastor there. 'There's a gravity, right? It kind of pulls you in'