In the Hindu idea, it's basically the dream of God. Vishnu who sustains this universe, how does he sustain it? By dreaming,. He lies down on his cosmic serpent, Shaitananda. And he is basically dreaming this universe. So the shining first and then the existence, that's second theory. Consciousness first, divine consciousness, then this world. Third, both are true. Don't privilege either of the other. Both have their own individual existence and they interact. They are all realities interacting with each other. The moment either of them drop out, the other also drops out. If you knock everything away in the world, there's nothing to experience. You