Islam is often treated as a civilisation apart — self-contained, resistant to modernity, and fundamentally at odds with the West. In this episode, Thomas speaks to Oxford professor James McDougall about why that framing is misleading, and how Islamic history is inseparable from the making of the modern world itself.
Drawing on his new book Worlds of Islam: A Global History, McDougall explains:
- Why Islamic and Western histories are deeply intertwined rather than civilisationally opposed
- The extent to which Islam is an imperial and political project
- Islam’s role in shaping global modernity before European dominance
- What made European power different in the nineteenth century
- How the Mongol sack of Baghdad reshaped the geography of the Islamic world
- The importance of Central Asia, Indonesia, and West Africa to Islamic history
- The debate over early Islamic sources and why scholarly scepticism has softened
- Whether today’s tensions reflect a clash of civilizations — or a clash of perspectives
Follow James on Instagram: www.instagram.com/jamesrobertmcdougall
Follow James on Substack: substack.com/@mcdougalljames
Follow James of Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jamesrmcd.bsky.social
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Conflicted is a Message Heard production.
Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.
This episode was produced by Thomas Small and edited by Lizzy Andrews.
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