The Toxic Rationality of Dialogue

In this episode, I wanted to do something a little different. As the community continues to metabolize the stunning allegations by high-level intelligence official turned UFO whistleblower, David Grusch, and with more people waking up to the significance of this story everyday—the thing I’m hearing the most is just that people want to talk. We want to connect about this. If there’s anything that I’ve learned over the past few years it’s that this process of dismantling our consensus reality and coming to grips with a new one that shakes the foundations of every paradigm we have is a team sport. We’re meant to do these things in community.

Two weeks ago, I had the opportunity to spend the weekend with a bunch of really bright, like-minded people that I’ve met through doing this work, and it was honestly magical. We’ve come a long way in this conversation with the public-at-large, but for most of us who have a deep interest in this topic, we still find ourselves censoring and compartmentalizing to protect ourselves from the stigma we might face for simply considering these ideas. And so being able to gather with a group of people and let down those walls and give voice to the thoughts and hopes and anxieties that emerge when you’re coming to terms with the realities of a highly advanced, non-human presence on this planet can be a massive relief. It’s healing and I’d argue that it’s necessary.

But I know how rare those moments are, and I know that there are so many people who are more than ready to have those conversations, but who still haven’t found a safe place for that. And so I wanted to do my best to bring one of those conversations to you.
So this week, I sat down with my friend and colleague, Nathan, to chat about what this journey has been like, some of the stumbling blocks we’ve hit along the way, and how we can move forward into this strange new reality in a way that is healthy and productive. And I knew that Nathan would be the perfect person to have that conversation with.

Nathan uses a mononym because, like so many in the community—including, I assume, many of you listening—he’s a serious guy with a serious job who doesn’t necessarily want to advertise his interest in UFOs. But though you won’t find his last name online, what you will find is a bunch of phenomenal work. Nathan is the co-host of two great podcasts—Liminal Phrames on which he collaborates with Darren King (AKA ExoAcademian), and Calling All Beings, which he co-pilots along with a bunch of other wonderful contributors in the space including D.J., Deb, Leah Prime, and a rotating lineup of other friends.

What I appreciate so much about Nathan is his rational yet deeply human-centered approach to the UFO phenomenon. He manages to navigate the deepest and most treacherous waters of this topic while still remaining grounded and without ever losing focus on the things that matter most—our relationships and connections with each other. Nathan is exactly the kind of friend that you’d want to have this kind of conversation with, and I hope you enjoy this chat as much as I did. And may we all move forward from this episode with the intention of being that kind of friend for others who will soon be going through this, too.



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