I'm not so familiar with other proving systems yeah what I'm as I understand fry based systems like Starks almost entirely rely on NTT. Like Marlin is much much more MSM heavy right this is why we actually had the both com and Polygon who's building a system that's like Starks it's like Snarks and Starks they sponsored the NTT prize specifically because for them they don't really care about theMS it's not relevant one thing I was going to say to I think maybe that helped our team is that everyone the kind of is has a speciality in different fields so like Rahul has done a lot of very good mathematical work and for me I'm more of

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