Disintermediation and the Long Journey Up the Stack

New @greenpillnet pod out today! 🌐 In this episode of the VDAO x Greenpill Antifragile Network States mini-series, hosts Marc Ziade & Kris Miller sit down with Simon Brown longtime Ethereum builder and lead of the ConsenSys Network State initiative.

They explore how digital coordination tools like MetaMask, Infura, Linea, DAOs, token networks, and on-chain identity form the operational software layer for future antifragile societies. Simon breaks down what network states really are, why the concept predates crypto, how Ethereum enables global community formation, and how capital formation, shared values, and founder networks could power the next generation of sovereign digital communities.

This episode is essential listening for anyone building toward self-sovereign, decentralized, resilient civilizational systems. 🐦 @owocki @greenpillnet https://x.com/0xkrisv https://x.com/ZiadeMarc https://x.com/orbmis https://x.com/joinvdao

🌐 Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to the VDAO Antifragile Network States mini-series 00:32 – From fragility to antifragility: why digital tools matter 01:40 – Introducing guest Simon Brown (ConsenSys Network State) 02:09 – What is a network state? Why no one agrees on a definition

Origins & Influences 03:10 – Network states before crypto: McLuhan, global villages & sovereign individual 04:28 – The lineage of the network state idea 06:04 – Builders looking beyond the limits of nation-states 07:15 – Simon's motivation: from Ethereum hacker to network-state thinker

Ethereum as the Root Layer 08:30 – Ethereum as sociotechnology, not just technology 09:57 – Why the ecosystem keeps innovators engaged 12:05 – How "network states" entered mainstream crypto conversations 14:04 – Network-state momentum over the last year

Motivations & Narratives 15:38 – Are builders really searching for post-nation-state models? 16:22 – Why the idea must translate into real-world benefits 18:17 – Ethereum + network states = practical sociopolitical tooling 20:31 – Dapps today as institutions of tomorrow

Successful Experiments 22:14 – Permanent hubs: Zuzalu, Prospera, Esmeralda, Frontier Tower 23:55 – Why permaculture & commons movements align with network states 24:28 – Inspiring real-world examples outside crypto

Nation-States vs Digital Nations 26:56 – How online communities form identity without geography 28:47 – Feeling "more digital than national" 30:51 – The role of values, narratives & legitimacy 32:45 – Network states can be utopian… or dystopian 34:22 – Google, Tesla, Meta as proto-network states

Crypto, Power & Sovereignty 36:29 – How Ethereum can level the playing field 38:11 – Institutional adoption vs the deeper purpose 40:32 – Using crypto to replace outdated financial infrastructure 42:25 – Ethereum as the only truly decentralized base layer

Physical Infrastructure & Sovereignty 44:39 – Do network states need land? The IRL question 46:48 – When physical hubs strengthen diplomacy & bargaining power 48:44 – Why territory is optional—not essential 50:30 – Cloud dependence, AWS outages & infrastructure sovereignty

Diplomatic Recognition 52:34 – Is recognition by states important? Simon's answer: "Not really." 54:12 – VDOW's position: political sovereignty is optional

Capital Formation & Founder Networks 57:45 – Disintermediation from finance → to every layer of society 59:55 – Why building must come before defining 01:01:56 – Crypto's capital problem: broken incentives, extraction, toxicity 01:03:59 – Why Linea sees itself as a digital economic network 01:06:20 – ConsenSys Network State & aligned values 01:07:29 – Toward a tokenized, decentralized future

What's Coming Next 01:09:18 – Founder networks: new capital formation infrastructure 01:11:38 – Rewriting the playbook for funding, ownership & governance 01:13:39 – Thoughts on the Coinbase acquisition & market signals 01:15:31 – Innovation returning to early Web3 roots

Values & Collective Identity 01:17:47 – Why defining values matters more than definitions 01:20:05 – DAO-like equity swaps & polycentric governance 01:21:30 – The Ethereum Values experiment with Intuition Protocol 01:23:55 – Community-generated values as a "moral commandment"

Final Section 01:25:39 – Bottom-up values as the core of digital nations 01:27:31 – Prediction markets, TCRs, and future coordination tools 01:29:19 – How to follow CNS Labs & the upcoming founder network launch 01:31:00 – Closing thoughts: the work ahead