When I first came on to the scene in the 1980s there were great debates you know within the Democrats and the Republicans over neoliberalism. My side lost for 30 years or so from the 90s up until really the 2020s I starts to break with Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump in 2016. In my new book hell to pay how the suppression of wages is destroying America that we've gone from the mid-century model of a high wage social insurance system, he says.