Intro

In this episode I am once again joined by Mary Shutan: author, occultist, and spiritual teacher. Mary explains her activities as a modern spirit worker, reveals how to form and maintain working relationships with spirits, details the difference between spirit pacts and contracts, and warns about the unintended consequences of making deals with unknown beings. Mary explores the problems associated with using the word “shaman”, offers a critique of modern shamanism training courses, and explains why many people who pursue shamanism would be better suited to a religious orientation to animism. Mary also reveals her own aborted attempt at the infamous Abramelin ritual, details the resultant fallout and years of recovery, and reflects on the impact of magickal practice on mental and physical health. … Full episode link in bio. Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’.
 … 01:00 - What is a modern spiritual worker? 02:20 - Why Mary doesn’t like to use the word “shaman” 02:44 - Mary’s problems with Core Shamanism 04:31 - Shamanism and patriarchy 05:34 - Why Mary doesn’t call herself a shaman 07:54 - Core Shamanism, Christian conditioning, and legacies of colonisation 10:58 - Anthropologists as shamanic teachers 13:21 - Training in Core Shamanism 15:41 - Critique of Core Shamanism and wounded healers 18:43 - Post-colonial critiques of modern shamanism 20:00 - Some people really want animism 21:42 - When shamanism goes wrong 22:33 - Cherry-picking shamanism and reconstruction 23:47 - Discernment and tainted gnosis 24:22 - Words have energy and the need for respect 26:36 - Mary uses the word “shaman” in her business and books 27:33 - Pervasive Christian conditioning 28:30 - Patriarchy in shamanism 29:38 - Pop-shamanism vs direct experience 30:55 - 20 years of teaching shamanism 32:16 - People don’t believe in spirits any more 34:04 - Modernity and scientism 37:06 - Modernity and shamanism 40:40 - Martin Prechtel engaging with indigenous shamanism 43:06 - Indigeneity and the routes to become a shaman 46:52 - What Mary tells people who feel called to shamanism? 49:05 - Conflating personal religious practice with professionalising 49:53 - How to get started in animism 52:55 - Which spirits and entities does Mary work with? 55:27 - Spirit relations 57:42 - Mary’s way of relating to spirits 59:33 - Spirit communication in dreams and through rituals 01:00:27 - Spirits who come to Mary 01:01:23 - Spirit contracts 01:03:56 - Spirit ID and the danger of spirit contracts 01:04:53 - The Buddha in Sri Lanka 01:06:35 - Be careful what you wish for 01:07:31 - Spirit Lawyering 01:07:52 - Healthy skepticism when dealing with spirits 01:10:00 - Cultural misunderstandings about spirits 01:11:21 - Don’t make a pact with a spirit 01:12:29 - Warning about spirit contracts 01:13:18 - Pact vs contract 01:16:41 - Mary’s training in Western Occultism and time in the Void 01:20:14 - Mary’s spiritual crisis 01:24:17 - Orienting to the Dark Feminine 01:27:09 - Two attempts at the Abramelin ritual 01:29:16 - Abandoning the 18-month Abramelin ritual 01:29:50 - How did Mary exit the ritual? 01:30:48 - Magick and mental health 01:32:36 - Psychotherapists for magicians 01:33:32 - Struggles with the Golden Dawn and pivoting to shamanism 01:38:24 - Christian monks did magick 01:38:55 - Giving up seeking … Previous episode with Mary Shutan: - https://www.guruviking.com/search?q=shutan To find out more about Mary Shutan, visit: - http://maryshutan.com/ For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - www.guruviking.com Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James