Martin Köppelmann, co-founder of Gnosis, has proposed that Ethereum should have native rollups—a vision aimed at addressing scalability and decentralization.

Köppelmann critiques the current state of layer 2 solutions, highlighting their limitations in fully inheriting Ethereum’s security and composability. 

He proposes a bold alternative: 128 Ethereum-native rollups designed to expand block space, strengthen alignment with Ethereum’s core principles, and ensure long-term viability for developers and users.

Plus, Martin tackles the controversies: Are L2s parasitic? Could native rollups spell the end for existing solutions? And why should they rely on zero-knowledge proofs instead of Optimism?

Show highlights:

• Whether the Ethereum scaling roadmap is accomplishing its goals
• Why based rollups are not a full solution, according to Martin
• What Martin proposes instead
• Why Martin is proposing these rollups to be ZK-rollups instead of optimistic
• Whether the proposed solution would focus on privacy
• What it is about chain abstraction that Martin doesn’t like
• How he envisions that these native rollups will solve many composability issues across L2s
• Whether the community has embraced this proposal and how likely it is to be implemented
• What would happen to current L2s if native rollups get implemented
• Why despite being against the current state of L2s, Martin says that they are not parasitic to Ethereum

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Guest:

• Martin Köppelmann, Co-founder and CEO of Gnosis

Links

• Previous coverage of Unchained on Ethereum layer 2s:
• ETH Is Down Bad, While Layer 2s Are Ripping. Are L2s Parasitic to Ethereum?
• Are L2s ‘Parasitic’? Analysis Shows Ethereum Only Gets a Tiny Percentage of Fees
• Are Solana’s ‘Network Extensions’ Just Like Ethereum’s Layer 2s But by a Different Name?
• Ethereum Has Had a Banner Year in Most Areas. Except Price.
• Should Ethereum Layer 2s Urgently Decentralize Their Sequencers?
• Blockworks: Gnosis founder argues Ethereum needs native L2s
• Martin’s tweet on USDC yields

Timestamps: 

• 00:00 Intro
• 01:47 Is Ethereum’s scaling roadmap meeting its goals?
• 04:07 Why Martin believes based rollups aren’t the full solution
• 08:11 Martin’s bold proposal for native rollups
• 12:07 Why ZK-rollups over optimistic rollups
• 15:56 Whether these rollups should also preserve privacy
• 17:11 Martin’s issue with chain abstraction
• 22:35 How native rollups could solve L2 composability problems
• 26:49 Has the community embraced Martin’s vision?
• 30:52 What happens to existing L2s if native rollups win
• 36:06 Whether Martin thinks L2s are parasitic to Ethereum

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