Mastering the Art of Interviewing

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

#330: Deconstructing The Art & Science Of Interviewing With Jay Acunzo

Full show notes can be found at www.LearningLeader.com

This is a special bonus episode focusing on deconstructing the art and science of interviewing.  You will hear learning happening in real time.  Jay Acunzo and I go a meta-level to better understand how to better improve our conversation ability, how to be better in an interview.  "Interviewing is a skill that enhances your life in a pleasant and unexpected way."  This is focused on how you can ask better questions, be more interesting and more interested, and become a better conversationalist.

Notes: 

• The meta level of deconstructing the process of making the work is rare...
• "I experience the most flow when it's quiet, nitty-gritty work.  Those minute are profoundly rewarding for me."
• What makes a great interview?
• An open loop -- Start telling the story, but wait to close the loop until later to build intrigue...
• The difference between a narrative style show and an interview getting to know someone:
  • A story is three parts - The intent of the story: The "Joseph Campbell Heroes Journey" 1) Status Quo 2) Conflict 3) Resolution
  • Bucket of questions:
    • "Tell me about X..."
    • "How did it make you feel?"
    • The analysis and the reflection
• Change your mindset: "You're not an interviewer, you're a dance partner."
  • "The only thing that matters is that you lead.  Everything else is little subtle moves to get people to go to where you want to go."
• "It's not a constant march forward. Instead, think of it like a dance. There are some steps back, steps forward, steps to the side — all packaged together in one coherent experience, with lots of zig-zagging and subtle steps inside those boundaries."
• Open ended questions: “Tell me about X” gets you story details, while “how did it feel when” gets you key moments of reflection and analysis. Both are crucial.
• Clip #1 -- JJ Redick 
  • He says “great question” — what would make someone interviewed as often as a pro athlete say that?
  • How to prep for an interview for someone who is interviewed all the time?
    • Built a basic rapport leading up to the interview -- Discussed sports, restaurants, podcasting, interviewing.  Developed a "friend" level of communication
      • Create an environment where the guest wants it to be a great show
  • Good follow up questions: Ask for an example... Asking, "How did that make you feel?" "What's your process?" --> Then be a deep, thoughtful listener to ask a follow up.
  • Stay on the same level with your dance partner - Don't be a guest "worshiper"
  • When following up, there are a few things you can do: 1) Distill 2) Disagree 3) Ask the next question...
  • During an interview, the best question you can ask: "How did that make you feel?" It enables them to get in an emotional lane (away from canned responses)
  • Testing the levels on the microphone -- Don't waste that opportunity.  Engineer the guest, the human -- You need them to feel like we're hanging out and excited about the interview.  Make it fun.  What to ask instead: "I'm going to check your levels, do you have any pets at home?" "What would be your last meal on earth?" -- It helps people break out of their corporate drone mode.  The question is about the person, on a human plane.
  • Create a safe space for them to share their truth. "I'm not a journalist, I'm a conversationalist."
• Clip #2 -- Adam Savage
  • How did he get on the show? Working with a PR firm to book a guest -- A great PR person like Brent Underwood only recommends guests that are a good fit for the show.
  • Ask questions that you are genuinely curious about -- I am curious about someone's process and it's always led me to a useful follow up...
  • The issue is sometimes a "process" oriented question is the guest can answer with a generality... How to wiggle out of that?
    • Look at the acknowledgement section of their book to get ideas for important people/events in their life to ask about...
  • Mental Heuristics: Tell me about, 30,000 feet, go to a specific example... The third question is "Putting them in a box:" -- "
• From Jay: Heuristics to tell great AUDIO stories:
  • Tell me about...
  • How did you feel when (or, how did that feel?)
  • Can you give me an example?
  • (Superlatives) Best, worst, funniest, scariest, hardest, least certain, favorite, etc...
  • (Dig for emotional moments)
• Clip #3 -- Brian Koppelman
  • How to handle nerves -- Work to get settled in.  Get through the initial conversation point...
  • Give people a genuine compliment for why you like their work -- Tell people why their work helps you
• Hidden Gems:
  • Interplay between your intent for the work and your framework for it:
    • "My goal is to engineer an outcome, but I have an intent I don't want to become The Bachelor in Paradise."
      • Have self and situational awareness.  We carry with us good intent to serve the audience.  Don't let the framework or engineering supersede the original intent.
  • The two types of interviews: 1) The person, their story... 2) Their content
    • The best conversations are able to weave both together and smoothly bounce back and forth
    • Learn about the person AND learn about the topic that he has mastered -- Master that dance between both -- I need to give you something that is going to make you better.
• Use the "Get To Know You Document"
• Why joining The Learning Leader Circle is a good idea