Really, wait a minute. Wait a minute. So only 20 % of heur time is doing the stuff, and the rest is managing. I mean, how hard is it to manage? I don't know, brent. Tell me. Help me here. So

i think it's pretty difficult. I think it may be more difficult than it can seem from the outside. But back to the question. 80 % of the time spent i managing, it may thot, sounds about right to me. I think that we should call this the lauri crebs ratio. I like that. I like that. I don't know if some one else has said this, or, you knw, if it came from an article or something, but like, to me, this is the lary crabs ratio,

and it's so christened, yep, the laury crabs ratio. There it is. 80 % managerial, 20 % technical. Ok, ok,

so hold hold on. We know that some managers, they want to code. Why shouldn't

they? Because there are some horror stories out there,

i believe that. Yes,

we asked around for some examples of managers behaving badly. Get some juicy gossip, aunte, but people were, i mean, pretty understandably reluctant to give many details that could trace back to any one particular personn or situation. Yet

i totally understandthat it is a big, small industry. And, you know,

circles are really, really small. You don't want to burn those bridges. They didn't want to name names, humhum. So while we don't have any stories to share to day, trust me, there are some pretty awful stories out there of managers getting in the way of their teams, or much worse. It's such a common problem that there's even a character in a book about devops processes who stands in as the archetype of, don't be that manager.

What should a manager do to realistically keep to the lloyd creb's ratio? I mean, it seems really hard to me to keep to that ratio. Yes,

that seems fairly common. But there are some solutions out there. I've got a few answers for you. The first comes from mark little.

I'm mark little. He's

a v p of engineering here at red hat. So obviously he's been on the management track for quite a while. And he's been a coter for even longer than that.

I've been in the tank industry, twenting on how you classified that,

since 19 eight, eight. And he never expected to be a manager, right? Just like your feeling right now, angela, he always told himself that he never wanted to move away from coating. I've

been coating in one way another since 19 77. Andi just love it. And i thought you could never do coating when you're a manager. So the further i get away from coating, the further i get away from what i love to do. And

as he progressed in his career and eventually became a manager, he had that same kind of muscle memory problem like chris decribed, i want to help

get to the answer now, rather than in an hour or two hout. When

mark sees something that he wants to jump in on and help out, he gets a little devil on his shoulders saying like, just go

in there and tell them that this is wrong. They got a storp. They got to roll it all back. And

then he's got the little angel on his shoulder that says, well, you

know, this code is already on the product, so we can't roll it back. We got a kind of roll it forward. And also, you don't want to make people feel bad about that. They've done a great job. I can understand why they'd perhaps have gone down and rolled that. I wouldn't have gone down if they'd known the internals perhaps as much as i do. So then you got to figure out how you can approach them in a way to help them understand that there are alternatives, and probably better alternatives, and then get them to change and evolve it. So i've been in that situation a few times, and so far, touchwood, we've come out of the other side as a team together, and it's been very positive.

But mark still likes the code, right? Does he still get to do that?

He does. Mark has found a unique outlet for his creativity. Oh, i like tha. Tell

us more.