McCarthy says language is the thing that's going to help us get to the true essence of things. But he might think it goes the other way, you say. There might almost be something platonic about this,. It's like, although actually, I don't know, I would have to think about that more. Well, he certainly has the idea of a degraded reality, the more particular you get. And that's the only way he could get those things into our mind. So if he could bypass that, maybe he would be into that. But he can't.

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