I remember we were raising our first fund in 2022 as well. And I remember at the beginning of 2022, for us at least, people benchmarked a lot to Helium I'm not sure if it was the same for you guys because machine economy is a little bit different but for us it's a pitching deep and definitely and 2022 started off Helium at like 25 or 30 dollars I remember all the investors would ask us like didn't Helium already win like all of these like why is there anything why would you invest in anything else did we have already won like all of Deepin and then as Helium went from 30 to 15 and then 10, people were asking like, oh, Helium's like, no, it doesn't look like it's working at all. Like why would you invest in it? And so it became really hard from one angle to another. But I think it's just been amazing to see the community grow over the past handful of years and truly become a global ecosystem. And that's one of the pieces that has most impressed me about, there's an extreme amount of momentum and I think true sort of builder alignment towards fundamentals in your guys ecosystem and exploring the business use cases. So what was the secret sauce for you guys to be able to build that ecosystem? How have we gone about it? And what do you think the ecosystem projects are getting out of, you know, aligning themselves with the what

the builders really are like the projects we we interact with that build on peak and that we started interacting with like one and a half years ago initially when when the traction came or started is that they that they felt that we are not just doing this you know to like quickly launch something or jump on the next narrative but that we have been building this for a very long time and that we have a very strong conviction and what we're doing and that we're really there to you know support them because the beauty is if we make the deep and successful building in the ecosystem peak is successful and i think like that spirit and culture across and across the entire team is what attracts a lot of builders to us because yeah they feel like hey you know they support us they have the right intentions and of course what what helped a lot was understanding what those kind of iot applications need and the time before we started pgas of today so a lot of the you know building time can be reduced by having a lot of things readily built and that we also listen as in what do Deepens need next and then we kind of build the functionality in the priority order and the way it's needed and then of course I think what's also underestimated a lot is kind of the the brand that that has evolved and that we have that realworld focus and also build an enterprise adoption program. So there will be news around that soon because enterprises are not the ones that disrupt through Web3, but they can bring tremendous demand and value to scaling deepens. And I think that is something that a lot of projects can also identify well with and you know really i mean deepens are all about creating real world value and a lot of the space so far has been about casino culture right meme corn culture and just making money quickly and i think that just doesn't resonate so well with a lot of the traditional world. And also that doesn't resonate so well with a lot of the deep end builders because they want to build serious, valuable networks and applications. And bringing all of that together, I think that culture, and of course on a product level, serving them with everything they need. And if we don't have it yet, we will build it and we will provide it is what attracted a lot of projects initially. And then it's, it's momentum, right? Like the more, the more there are, the more are coming. And yeah, we're really grateful to see now that, that we hit that point where, you know, that the train is running and it's, it's going faster and faster. Yeah.

So like what, when you mentioned like, you know, things that you guys have built over the years as a request of defense building on your chain and that are going to be built going forward, what are some of those things, just to dive into it more specifically, that are common problems you guys have been able to solve for builders across the space? Yeah,

so machine IDs or DIDs were one of the first functions that we've built because every device, every machine, every device needs an identity to kind of come alive on the network, right? Or like get the passport in the machine economy if you want. So another one was role-based access control, right? Like access is kind of integral, an integral function of society, be it access to a building, access to a parking spot, even access to data, like having access control reflected on the blockchain is powerful there of course like payment and settlement logics right to to enable any sharing economy use case you need to have advanced settlement and payment logics data verification that's of course a very very big one and there's still a long way to go but we have something solid to start with and like really building this out as in solving that problem not with one specific functionality but with a toolbox and then every deep end can kind of you know take the data verification elements they need to to fulfill their use case reward distribution is another one right every deep end needs reward distribution so building that out and data. And also they're trying to find the right balance between decentralized immutable storage, but also making it cheap and fast enough. So it's actually feasible because IPFS and so on and all, it's still very slow, right? It doesn't scale that quickly. And And putting all of that in a super simple SDK, JavaScript, Flutter, Android, iOS, anything. And there's a lot of work still to be done. So that you don't need to go as a deep end builder and build a smart contract yourself or integrate on that level. But that you can just come, the language you know, the framework you know, and build very quickly. And this is, yeah, this is what makes it easy and attractive to build on peak.

Makes sense.