Middle East: Moderates Versus Fanatics

Bret explains the region's ongoing importance for energy, migration, and the struggle between modernizers and totalitarians.

Play episode from 19:10

chevron_right

Transcript

chevron_right

Transcript

Episode notes

Subscribe to Inside Call me Back inside.arkmedia.org

Gift a subscription of Inside Call me Back: inside.arkmedia.org/gifts

Sapir Journal: https://sapirjournal.org/

Subscribe to Nadav Eyal’s Substack: https://nadave.substack.com/

Subscribe to Amit Segal’s newsletter ‘It’s Noon in Israel’: arkmedia.org/amitsegal/

Watch Call me Back on YouTube: youtube.com/@CallMeBackPodcast

Check out Ark Media’s other podcasts:

For Heaven's Sake: https://lnk.to/rfGlrA
‘What’s Your Number?’: https://lnk.to/rfGlrA

For sponsorship inquiries, please contact: callmeback@arkmedia.org

To contact us, sign up for updates, and access transcripts, visit: arkmedia.org/

Ark Media on Instagram: instagram.com/arkmediaorg

Dan on X: x.com/dansenor

Dan on Instagram: instagram.com/dansenor

To order Dan Senor & Saul Singer’s book, The Genius of Israel: tinyurl.com/bdeyjsdn

Today’s Episode:

Few people expected to start 2026 with images of Nicolas Maduro in a New York prison. In the days since Madouro’s capture, many have argued that the Trump administration’s operation in Venezuela is another signal that the global system we’ve known for the better part of a century has dramatically changed. From the ongoing Russia-Ukraine war, to Israel’s two-year multifront battle, to a potential Chinese invasion of Taiwan, geopolitical power dynamics are rapidly shifting. But to what end? Are we witnessing the emergence of a new world order?

To discuss the historical context and implications of the geopolitical moment we find ourselves in, Dan was joined by Call me Back veteran Brett Stephens. Brett is an opinion columnist for the New York Times, a senior contributor to NBC News, and the inaugural editor in chief of the Sapir journal. Bret previously worked as a foreign affairs columnist for the Wall Street Journal, and from 2002-2004 served as the editor in chief of the Jerusalem Post.

(00:00) Introduction

(05:32) Unpacking the “old world order”

(13:43) Where does Europe stand?

(16:55) What Europe could learn from Israel

(19:11) The Middle East and Turkey’s growing influence

(22:32) What to make of the mass protests in Iran

(25:12) The illusion of a rules-based global order?

(27:16) Trump: what he gets right and what he gets wrong

(32:28) Are we heading toward a great power war?

CREDITS:

ILAN BENATAR - Producer & Editor

ADAAM JAMES LEVIN-AREDDY - Executive Producer