Oil companies were interested in having that happen. I think it just connects to this notion that vitality and freedom and life as valued in a capitalist, Western industrial system are dependent upon oil is the sort of message. And energy transition is going to have to also be a transition in the way we think about work, freedom, what is the good life. So in a way, I almost think we need to borrow that, that strategy from oil and remind ourselves that there's lots of different kinds of energy.

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