"You don't get anywhere telling people that what's really important to them is you know not something that you believe is the case," he says. "So I'm suggesting that another approach was to take a new story calling everybody's story which is pretty recent we've only in the last 30 or 40 years." He adds: "It's sort of starting over um not uh taking an existing tradition and asking what you're going to do with it"'

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