Users vs. Citizens: Roles and Responsibilities

New @greenpillnet pod out today! 🌐 In this episode of the Network Nations mini-series, hosts Primavera De Filippi explore the idea of entanglement the voluntary interdependencies that turn loose networks into cohesive, resilient communities.

They're joined by Jon Hillis (Cabin / Neighborhood Village Project) and Timour Kosters (EdgeCity), two builders experimenting with new forms of communal life. Together they discuss how DAOs, pop-up cities, shared rituals, physical infrastructure, and collective work can create the deeper social ties needed for future network nations.

If you're curious how civil society can organize beyond states and startups through kinship, cooperation, and shared purpose this conversation is foundational.

🌐 networknations.network 🌱 greenpill.network 🐦 @owocki @timourxyz @JonathanHillis @greenpillnet

🌐 Timestamps

00:00 – Cold Start 01:02 – What are Network Nations? Communities as shared commons 02:20 – Theme of the episode: entanglement as voluntary interdependence 03:26 – Introducing guests: Jon Hillis (Cabin) & Timour Kosters (EdgeCity)

Origins & Stories 05:08 – John's story: leaving Instacart to build a village in Texas 07:15 – The Cabin experiment and why the DAO eventually shut down 09:00 – Governance stalemate: misaligned token-holder incentives 10:39 – Timur's story: Zuzalu, EdgeCity & pop-up civic experiments 12:56 – Why pop-up villages unlock deeper, experimental governance

Community, Infrastructure & Entanglement 14:55 – Community vs infrastructure: which comes first? 17:19 – Why communities deepen through building things together 19:15 – Doing as a means to the end: community itself 20:40 – Co-creation at EdgeCity: rituals, workshops, shared work

Citizens vs Users 23:04 – The identity question: are members users, consumers, or citizens? 25:05 – Why financial incentives conflict with community values 27:26 – The tension between startups, DAOs & community networks 29:46 – Events create more value than the event business model

The Commons & Institutional Dualities 31:29 – Government vs startups: opposite systems, opposite incentives 33:41 – Entanglement as an alternative to monitoring & sanctions 35:42 – Why scale changes everything in community coordination 38:04 – Social debt & reciprocity as natural entanglement

Examples of Entanglement in Practice 40:01 – Why people volunteer without financial incentives 42:23 – Imagined communities: identity across thousands 44:31 – Social entanglement vs economic & structural entanglement

Levels of Entanglement 46:38 – The four layers: social → cultural → economic → structural 48:35 – Why "forced entanglement" risks cult dynamics 50:55 – Healthy communities rely on voluntary exit 53:05 – Entanglement as a continuum: user → participant → citizen

Future Mechanisms 54:58 – What future entanglement systems might look like 57:04 – Missing pieces: identity layers, governance, shared resources 59:02 – Why place is the strongest form of entanglement

Closing 01:00:16 – Explaining entanglement to a 5-year-old: interdependence 01:01:42 – Final words from John & Timour