The Dynamics of Attraction and Social Proof

In this episode, Simone and the host explore the recent controversy surrounding the influencer Destiny. They express their curiosity about why such seemingly mundane scandals provoke strong reactions, drawing comparisons to other famous sex scandals involving public figures like Monica Lewinsky and Neil Gaiman. They delve into Destiny's involvement with a Discord community member, discussing allegations that he shared intimate recordings without consent. The discussion also touches on gender dynamics in scandals, the impact on Destiny's career, and the broader implications for online personalities. Throughout the conversation, they reflect on their own boundaries and potential controversies within their social circle.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, Simone. I'm excited to be here with you today. Today, we are going to be talking about the Destiny controversy, but not from the normal angle, because that is not our profession with this channel. It doesn't fit on people, and frankly, I found the Actual dirt of the controversy. Well, you know, technically immoral kind of mundane for the amount of uproar it's driven.

And that led me well, and more importantly to me, the emotions it drew in myself, this is what I wanted to focus on. Was this, why did destiny controversies despite being otherwise mundane. Gross me out so much every time they happen.

Microphone (Wireless Microphone Rx)-6: Buckle in for an influencer drama special.

Oh my god this is so [00:01:00] good

Simone Collins: Is this a Monica Lewinsky thing?

Malcolm Collins: No, it's not a Monica Lewinsky thing.

Monica Lewinsky, everyone knew why Monica Lewinsky was gross. Monica Lewinsky was gross because Monica Lewinsky was not an attractive woman. No,

Simone Collins: no, no, but I mean people freaked out about Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky because It didn't fit the proper stereotype for that type of scandal, and perhaps this doesn't fit the proper stereotype for this type of scandal.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, as we pointed out, like if you look at the whatever Trump's sex scandal, who is that?

Simone Collins: Stormy Daniels.

Malcolm Collins: Stormy Daniels. Nobody really cared about Stormy Daniels.

Simone Collins: Because, of

Malcolm Collins: course, because,

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah, that's, presidents have affairs with, with famous figures, porn, famous, famous sex symbols. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Nobody really cared about the, the, the Kennedy, Marilyn [00:02:00] Monroe thing.

Exactly.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So, so that could be a part of this, but we'll get into that in a second. First, I want to go over, because like, okay. Just quickly go over that, like, Well, just what happened.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm not

Malcolm Collins: even super clear on And we actually are weirdly tied to this in a way, so we'll get into that. I will note that, like, we have, like, social ties to, like, Destiny's Circle.

I don't know him personally. We, like, talked about wanting to do things together. I know that he's told other people that we have talked about wanting to do things, but he's never gotten back to us. And if people know things about me, there are, there are two key personality traits I have.

One is that I am very loyal. Somebody, especially somebody bigger than me does something for me. I really make a point of remembering that. Then the second is that I am very, very arrogant and whenever somebody doesn't think I'm worth talking to, I become very irate.

Simone Collins: So had,

Malcolm Collins: had destiny not, not blown me off, blamed on us and blown us off negative about him, we [00:03:00] probably would be, no, I'm very loyal like that. I don't care if he has different political beliefs or whatever, I wouldn't do that s**t.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But too bad. Not that we're big enough to matter to him. Alright, so he was hitting on, within his Discord, what people call a Discord bunny. Or I guess, like a random follower within his community. She was apparently pretty well established in the community and she was 19 years old and to hit on her.

Anyway, so he sent her a video of Audio and video recordings of things he had done with other girls. Ew. No. Oh, that's Attempt now my understanding.

Oh dick pics would be so much better than that But that just I don't and this is where it gets grosser to me for whatever reason is it appears It was of him going down on other girls. I think he was trying to prove to her That he could please girls or like Show like some of these it appears were recorded potentially without consent.

Allegedly, [00:04:00] but the key one in the case was accorded, it appears with consent, but it's not 100 percent yet.

Simone Collins: Okay, that is, I've never heard of someone. Doing that before. I think typically it's considered a really bad idea to even talk about your past relationships with a prospective partner, right? Like, no one wants to hear about that.

Malcolm Collins: That's more girls to guys and I understand that people say that works the other way, but it really doesn't. I've never really had a problem. Especially if you're showing the preponderance of women that are interested in you with girls. A lot of girls find that a turn on. There was actually a great study about this that showed that girls are like more likely to hit on married men or men with wedding rings and than men without wedding rings.

It's called

The term I was thinking of is called pre-selection. It means that some other woman has essentially pre-vetted a potential mate as a good candidate. And when lots of women like a mate, as a potential [00:05:00] candidate, that's a sign that. Regardless of anything else, even if you're unable to see why their genes have good, their genes are sort of being proven as good. Within this environment and you would want your sons to have those genes.

There is also a phenomenon called the wedding ring effect, which I talked about above.

I forget the concept The South Park does a thing on it. Basically, the more girls who scream, the more girls who scream,

Problem, Chef. I have many problems. I just don't know what I'm gonna do. Sometimes I wonder if God is just toying with me. All right, Eric, what's the matter? Chef, God told me I was to start a boy band and make 10 million.

The problem is it isn't working. Well, Eric boy bands aren't about music. Boy bands are created by corporations to make money. They're all based on the Gomlitz effect.

The law of physics that states if one girl screams for something, it will make other girls scream. And then, it grows exponentially until all girls within a five mile radius are screaming. All they do is make videos, showing tons and tons of girls screaming for the boy bands.

Once you get girls screaming, you can't stop them. They're crazy. And a cucumber in the pants never [00:06:00] hurt either. Cucumber in the pants, got it.

When you see us, you girls all scream like, Oh my God, it's Fingerping! Oh my God! Okay? Fine, who would you go crazy for? Matt Lauer. Okay, fine, pretend that we're Matt Lauer. Oh, okay. Okay, roll camera! Come on! Ahhhhhhhhh!

Jesus Christ! Oh, no!

Malcolm Collins: But it means that when girls, other girls interested in you, they are more interested in you.

And there's ways that you can prove this was various forms of social proof, et cetera, which he was

Simone Collins: trying to do that.

Malcolm Collins: I think he was trying to show that he was good at giving, going gal and girl. I don't see anything other than that. I think that's what it was. One of the girls in this is somebody that he had gotten with a few years ago, when she, it turns out, was also 19.

Keep in mind Destiny's 36. And has a kid. Okay. And it's bad to, you know, record things and and then share them with other people. But in the context, he had shared it with somebody who he thought he had a good [00:07:00] relationship with and. Well, he had talked with him at least a few times and wasn't going to go out and share it.

It seems pretty clear to me that his intention was not to leak this it's a very serious negative repercussions on his career, on his relationships. It was not his intention. The person who is complaining about all this says it was his intention. I can see how he thought, well, nobody hears about it.

It's not unethical, right? I, I don't agree with this. Like, I think it is clearly an unethical boundary violation thing. But if,

Simone Collins: if, like, if anyone took Intimate video audio or images of me and then share them with someone else without my consent. I would be in sense. That's a huge. I

Malcolm Collins: understand Simone. But again, like, I look at the, these are people hooking up with a.

The famous, you know, streamer, like

Simone Collins: you're kind of saying, like, what do you expect?

Malcolm Collins: What do you expect? You know, one who you know, had had allegations of doing this in the past and it came out quickly as this case [00:08:00] has had a history of recording and sharing these recordings. You know, and had other people warning people that he had been recording.

And then he said, no, I didn't do that. And by the way, about the 19 year old thing, I'll play a clip. Right here from Destiny about what he thinks about 19 year olds and their mental acuity.

Now, if you're 22, a 19 year old's, not a kid to you, okay? I'm 29, a 19-year-old. Might as well be a 15-year-old. To me, it's all the f*****g same dude. I have about as much in common with like an 18-year-old, 19-year-old f*****g freshman in school as I would a f*****g sophomore in high school. Any type of inclination towards any of those people is really f*****g weird.

Simone Collins: Oh, that's, that came out bad later.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, that came out bad later. And here's one about him on sharing videos of other people, what he thinks of people who do that.

I just don't see the huge difference between, like, sex and and nudes. Like, you're leaking, like, personal, like, sexual s**t that somebody sent you and, like, trusted you with. In my opinion, this is, like, one of the biggest forms of, like, weird, like, backstabbing s**t that you can do. It's, like, one of the worst things a person can do is, like, [00:09:00] leaking, like, private sexual sh

Malcolm Collins: Again, not positive.

Simone Collins: I wonder when our own statements will be used out of context against us like this.

Malcolm Collins: No, these are not out of context statements.

These are in, in context statements. But the point here being is I was really surprised by like, because this isn't like, like there are like so many times where somebody is like griefing on like genuine minors or like, like age gap relationships and stuff. I'm like, whatever, like, you know, it can be weird in some circumstances, but whatever.

Historically, they were pretty normal

I guess right here, I am a bit biased at the moment because I've been reading a lot of history about one of my ancestors, John Knox, who multiple times when he was older, got married to a 17 year old in both of those marriages. , it appeared the women were very, very happy. , and, , since I'm descended from one of those, I have to have a thing about, well, I mean, Eh, maybe not always, are they the worst?

But in a modern context, a 17 year old that's young, I guess.

So I should say, okay. In a modern context, age gap, relationships might be a [00:10:00] problem. but why did I react that way with something I reflecting on? And then I reflected on it with the last destiny scandal. And this was the last

Simone Collins: destiny scandal.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, the cucking scandal where he let his wife sleep with other men and appeared to be into it at times.

And eventually his wife left him for one of the men that she was sleeping with and then started demanding money from him in like a really, honestly to me, skeezy way. I, I kind of feel like almost he's been victimized in that regards. And then part of this to me is almost sort of mitigated because Destiny is like, An active actively like into dudes as he has said before, he likes S ing D and F ing Femboys.

So, you know

Simone Collins: I mean, he then sounds like someone who's just very in touch with his sexuality. He knows what he likes.

Malcolm Collins: I wouldn't say in touch with his sexuality. In touch, you know, good turn of phrase there. I don't know, he's very hyper sexualized right now. Which is odd for this [00:11:00] stage of his life and being a dad, I'm going to be honest.

And we can go over too, if we want to go over like a long tweet thing that he did like just last Valentine's Day. And you'd be like, this is the type of degeneracy he's getting into these days. I was like, why am I responding so like, ick to him, and like low ick to say Trump's stuff, right? Huh. And I think that this is why the Dems tried to get him so hard with the p tapes, because that could have caused an ick response.

But they never could get, I think, a lot of people to believe in that. They were just like, this seems obviously fake. And I was trying to think of other celebrities that have given me this ick response. And I was like, you know, it's actually Louis CK and the like public masturbation thing. So I want to get to trying to like correlate what causes this response in the general public or in me specifically around certain because like the Louis CK one again, maybe like not the worst thing in the world, but like it caused a much grosser response to me than like Trump barging into like women at the pageant where he was owning the pageants like dressing [00:12:00] rooms, right?

Right,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So we'll get into that. And then I want to get into, and it's not due to liking them, I should say. I actually was pretty against Trump the first time he ran. Simone, you remember that I was on JD Vance's side. I was the, you know, I wouldn't say never Trumper, but I definitely had a lot of resistance to him as a human being.

I did not think that he could be a good president. I didn't think he was mentally stable. But I did not have an response to the dressing room story when it came out. I was just like, okay. You know perv, right? But before I get to that, I want to read a quote that I thought was really interesting.

Because people who don't know this, Destiny's a progressive streamer, right? And this is of one of his fans, it was one of the tops of the Reddit threads about this. It's probably over, unless the outcome is him being completely vindicated of all wrongdoing, which is unlikely at this point. It's Jover.

All orbiters have cut loose and drifted off into space. Nobody will take him [00:13:00] seriously in politics now. The momentum he has built for years is gone. I'm just so disappointed. This is the first creator I've been a super fan of that has nuked their career like this, and it hurts. I don't even know what to do now.

I've been watching him for years now, and what? Who else on the left is even worth watching? Pac Man? Sweet guy, but he's boring. Dylan Burns? Sure, I guess, but only after the Ukrainian docs, TYT Vosh, Hassan, Kalaisky, hell no to all four. The online left has nothing to offer me now.

Maybe I'm wrong, and there's some sane liberal media figures who bring the same spice Destiny had done, but I haven't seen them. Probably just going to quit paying attention to politics now. I don't care anymore. The world will burn under Trumpism, and there will be no force of truth left to stand against it.

Because the best the left can offer are apparently sex pests, cringe woke scolds, and champagne socialists. We are doomed. [00:14:00] All I can do is avert my eyes and retreat into my own life. This just f*****g sucks. And I think that this is actually a really good point before we go further into this, which is, this is a critical time for this to happen at The Left.

Simone Collins: Yeah, well, I would argue that there still is. I would say the A Little Bit Fruity podcast with Matt Bernstein is great. I think that it's well done. His takes are entertaining. He does talk about news and politics, so.

Malcolm Collins: Is he like a rabid anti Trumpist, though?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, he's, he's a, he's a gay leftist. He has on guests like and just like very, very progressive media figures,

Malcolm Collins: you could watch Tracy Woodgrain's stuff on Substack, that's pretty good.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but no, Tracy's considered, like, center right. Tracy.

Malcolm Collins: Tracy is not center right? Tracy is very much on the left. You, you, he's right. But by the left he would be by the left. He would be considered center. Right. I'm talking about people who, I, I, I, sorry, Simone, you, you've actually gotta really worry yourself about [00:15:00] succumbing to this terrorism.

There is a terrorism on the left where they try to attack. Left centrist, as they did with Destiny. If you ask a leftist, if you ask Hasan, he's gonna say Destiny is center right. They say this about every leftist, who is at all open to outside ideas, open to debating rightists, open to anything like that.

When you, even on the right, are succumbing to this, Simone, what you do is, one, pollute the right and two, give these people the ability to hold the left hostage. Tracy Woodbridge votes leftist, he considers himself leftist, and more than that, his opinions align with around the center margin of leftist opinions right now, if you look at voting patterns.

Or polling. Yeah,

Simone Collins: I mean, yeah, I think you might be surprised of the percent

Malcolm Collins: of lefty voters who are trans skeptical at this point.

Simone Collins: No, I, I agree with you. [00:16:00] I'm just saying one, this guy's wrong about good leftist podcast slash media figures. I think I disagree

Malcolm Collins: entirely. I mean, you, you know, this one guy who I've never heard of.

I know all the, yeah, because you

Simone Collins: live in an echo chamber. How many followers does he have? What was his name?

Malcolm Collins: He said like 189k subscribers, Sinan.

Simone Collins: Yes. But you gotta start somewhere.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, you've got the point.

I'm making my own and hold on. Hold on. I'll check his videos. How do they do? Yeah, they do pretty well. Actually. They're like, how did Elon Musk

Simone Collins: get like this? 264 K views, the tech bro. He's 162 K views. Blake Lively and the Amber Heard Effect, 164k views. The Cult of Stan Culture, 160k views. He has people on, like, ContraPoints.

I mean, he's, yeah, like I'm saying, there are places that leftists can go for commentary. But I also agree [00:17:00] with you that, yes, this is not a great time for center left leaning figures to start dropping. Well, not

Malcolm Collins: just that, but the center left figure who they had planned to be the Joe Rogan of the left, because that's what everyone said.

Oh, yeah. Well,

Simone Collins: yeah. Well, no, that that whole discussion is over. Everyone agrees. Obviously, Joe Rogan was the Joe Rogan of the left until the left just shoved Joe Rogan into the right, which is what's happening with basically anyone who survives and ends up being cool just is like, all right, well, I guess.

I'm kind of hanging out toward the right. There's this weird bastion of the right that's left, like the Blocks Unreported podcast, where they've kind of been shoved to the right by the left, but they still refuse to embrace the right. Like they're still very, very unhappy that Trump was elected as is most of their audience.

So I think that's really interesting that there's this weird bubble within. Like the heterodox world, the like not perfectly left world. [00:18:00] It's like, well, okay. I understand that the left hates me and sees me as evil. But at the same time, I hate the right. It's, it's really weird. Like they can't let go of it.

And I don't know, it's like they haven't

Malcolm Collins: woken up yet. You look at the others, like the free press who have become like Trump's biggest fans. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They, they, they, they absolutely love Trump and yeah, but it is really interesting that you can one. become hated by the left actively. And people like Jesse Singel have, like, you Know, blue sky, wanting him dead.

But he can't let go of his hatred of the, like, His bias of the right is still so strong that he can't let it go, even though he's now. Like subject to the same prejudice that, that figures on the right are in the, that he, he, he doesn't seem to realize that maybe many of these people are still quite, you know, framed poorly, or he chooses to think of, like, I don't know, misinterpret what they're saying.

I'm not sure. It's just, it's very strange to me. This,

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I mean, I, I think that they're still in the cult. They've just [00:19:00] been considered persona non grata. They're, they're one of those people who's been like kicked out of a religion and like their religions and all sorts of terrible stuff. But they're like, yeah, but I still believe it's just like the current cult leader or whatever is a bad guy.

And you're like, no, you, you, you really should try to deprogram a bit here, buddy, before you move on with your life. But. One of the fun things about this so there's a few fun things about this the first is that the girl who's Sex tape that he leaked the one at the center of this Was actually her core thing was in the destiny community was sort of as a proof point that you didn't need to give Destiny sexual favors if you were a girl and going to be a active or prominent within his community

Simone Collins: Technically received the sexual favor

Malcolm Collins: Whatever.

The point is, is that is why it was so reputationally damaging or part of why it was so reputationally damaging to her. But it also Because everyone

Simone Collins: thought they had not been intimate at all and clearly they had been.

Malcolm Collins: And he was still favoring her and bringing her on stuff and so Oh,

Simone Collins: ah. No, it just

Malcolm Collins: makes it look like any girl who's [00:20:00] around Destiny, you can really only get around him by sexual favors.

Which is deeply unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. The, the next one which is, is really fun for me is the guy who leaked all of this because This wasn't intended to be leaked. Like the girl who got this was like, this is bad. I want to tell the girls who are in this, that they're in it, but I don't want this to get public.

The guy who made this public and then has leaked further things about this is a guy called Sunday. So I go to his YouTube channel after this because I'm like, okay, who is this guy? Right? He's got 5. 2 thousand subscribers. So, you know, very small. And one of the most recent videos was, was 5, 000 views.

It was about us. It was, it was what I do appreciate about him is it was on. Our One Civilization video. Oh, that would make me so delighted! Our most controversial video. And so many people when they do videos on us, it's like on non controversial ones. Like we [00:21:00] had the people who tried to do a takedown on us for our like, consent video.

And I'm like, come on, that's nothing, that's nothing. But the one, One Civilization video, that one is spice. For people who haven't seen that, like if you're new to the channel, like that's like one of the key videos on the channel I guess I'd say. Where we argue that

It appears that one civilization jumped from culture to culture exhausting it then moving to the next culture but was like 500 to a thousand years before the rest of the world and almost everything from technology to infrastructure to art to literature and this went from ancient egypt to mesopotamia to ancient greece to ancient rome To Charlemagne, to Britain, to the world.

Very offensive. But we bring a lot of receipts in this video. It was one of the most researched videos we've ever done for the channel. And people were like, Why don't you do more videos like that? And I'm like, because it took me like three weeks to do. It was the same with like our recent track video that like nobody watches.

Where I like, diligently go through every part of the Bible. And it's like, why don't you do, nobody watches this. [00:22:00] You know, I, I try to put a lot of effort in, but nobody cares.

If you're wondering what his core take on everyone's civilization video was. It was so astonishingly dumb. I don't even know how to reply. He kept going. Like when I was like, okay, So Rome had this ancient bath complex in Britain. Like what did Britain do since in how long. , before they could build a great buildings like this again, and he goes, well, didn't Britain build things like

The London eye.

, that's the giant Ferris wheel thing in the center of London that was built, like, I don't know, 20, 30 years ago, whenever we would mention something, he would then mention some piece of architecture or literature from literally, , tens of thousands of years later. , as like a complete comparables, like, well, yes, the ancient Greeks could build statues like this and, you know, 500 BC.

But how is that any different from, the Japanese doing it in 2023. It's like, well,

Aye. Aye. Aye. What, what. W [00:23:00] what,

The video is an exploration of how and why history developed and develops as it does going forwards. Which is like, Do you lack any curiosity into history or the way the world is or why the world works the way it does. Or do you just take like the standard narrative from leftists and then. Swallow it whole like yum, yum.

Yum.

this guy also hates Ruby ARD and just does like every other video is about how much he hates Ruby yard. Which is.

Just to sign his bad character. I would say, I do think it's funny that like our crazy recent track video track nine. I could be seen as a, you know, I mentioned it as like our Ruby ARD moment in terms of going crazy. But we go crazy and literally like exactly the opposite way along every metric, you know, he's like, oh Dan, like, oh, you know, the old I'm like, no, Christianity is the only way to do it.

All paganism must be removed. He's like, well, I'm getting these like vibes from the universe. I'm [00:24:00] like, okay, we need to like a word puzzle. Go through every line in the Bible. Okay. Grammar check. Alternate grammar check. , where is this used in other locations? , so I just love the difference in our types of crazy, which I think it helps you, you know, if you listened to people with different types of crazy, you're going to eventually hear some ideas you wouldn't have heard of from your not crazy friends, as long as they're somehow still attached to reality.

So anyway this guy is, is doing videos on us, which made me really excited. Very

Simone Collins: flattering. So, super cool. Even though he probably hates us, I'm sure.

Malcolm Collins: Oh no, he, he hates that you have the video. I love it. He's like, why does she have an infant in the video? And I'm like, are you like against working moms, Mr. Lefty here? Yeah, where do you want me to

Simone Collins: should the infant be crying and alone in another room? Should I be Yes, that's like Literally, you know, wealthier than we are and like paying someone to watch the infant.

Like I, I don't

Malcolm Collins: Everyone must keep their child in a box or have a staff of full time nannies. Yeah Women must know their limits and stay in the [00:25:00] bedroom Even though you're in the bedroom right now,

Simone Collins: people got to be reasonable, man.

Malcolm Collins: But they just aren't, you know, lefties are never reasonable. And it's so funny when righties like criticize people is always like, okay, like me was destiny.

I'm like, well, you know, this was bad, but and I, and I will also say one of the things before I go further with the destiny thing is his age to me makes this significantly worse. Not because he's with younger girls. There are

Simone Collins: people who are way older, who also have issues with their sex drive being way higher than his.

Any need to be

Malcolm Collins: right. My point being is he like, when a young guy, like for example, if Ruby art got caught in some sort of a sex thing, I'd be like, whatever. Like he's

Simone Collins: in his twenties. It's going to happen

Malcolm Collins: in his twenties. If I was famous in my twenties, I would have done so much worse stuff than this.

Without any like as an adult, I, I, I, I try to be like a a goblin slayer. Like that's the way I try to approach life. As a kid, [00:26:00] I was a RWBY

I would thinking Rudy has gray rat from jobless reincarnation.

But he's the worst, but anyway, so to go further here, the question is why, why the disgust reaction? My initial hypothesis is there is a reaction towards males in dominant positions within society and wide sexual access acting submissively.

Simone Collins: Oh, I see.

So Trump, well, I don't know, but hold on though. So here's actually a really good, like recent additional sexual scandal that's happening at this roughly the same time, which is with Neil Gaiman, the famous author, you know, wrote great, great stuff. And I, I still love him just the same, you know, but he got in trouble for sexual misconduct with like nannies and stuff.

And in this case,

Malcolm Collins: I've heard about the story. I haven't heard anything that incriminating. He was

Simone Collins: BDSM y and he was [00:27:00] DOM y. But he's still getting a lot of, a lot of Why?

Malcolm Collins: What specifically rule did he break?

As you've all seen on the news, our country is facing a major crisis why? Why are rich, successful men suddenly going out and trying to have sex with lots of women? Why would a man who's famous Use that to try and have sex with lots of different women! And these rich celebrities have perfectly good wives at home! Why would they even think of sex with others? Dammit! I want answers! . Of course, we all know the normal healthy male thinks only of sex occasionally and has no desire for sex with multiple partners. Yeah, that's right, of course. Definitely true. Yes, we all know that.

Go on.

Malcolm Collins: I'd note here that as I dig into it more it's some people are claiming. That, , there was a lack of consent. , but these stories , are very old, like ones from 2007. , so eBay, it. Could very well be true, given his power. , I would [00:28:00] probably be afraid of going up against him.

, but I'm not going to just immediately believe anyone who accused the famous person at this point.

So that might be a story for another time.

How,

Simone Collins: how, how dare he, you know I mean, some people would think it's kind of creepy. Like, at one point, I think he had sex with a nanny with his son in the same room, just watching an iPad.

But like, I feel like people are still freaking out about him, even though he's acting in accordance with typical stereotypes. You know, he was playing the dominant role. He was sleeping with, you know, nannies, like all the classic, the classic stereotypes. That

Malcolm Collins: sounds like classic stuff. That doesn't sound like But people are

Simone Collins: still freaking out.

That's why I'm like, you know, maybe this isn't just about him bucking that. I mean, for you, maybe it's uniquely disgusting because he Is acting in a sub.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I wonder if the Neil Gaiman one, this is what I've seen about the Neil Gaiman one, okay?

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So I actually think that the Neil Gaiman one is different.

I don't think he's actually losing about his sexual stuff in the court of public [00:29:00] opinion.

Simone Collins: Huh.

Malcolm Collins: I think the reason Neil Gaiman is falling apart right now is because He so gleefully supported cancel culture. Did he? Yes he did. He was a very big proponent of cancel culture, he tried to have other people's cancelled, he, even for sexual stuff, like, like this sort of stuff and I think that's why this is happening.

Simone Collins: Okay, okay, okay, that, that would explain that then, yeah, how dare you,

Malcolm Collins: also it's a Hollywood problem. Which is, the Hollywood problem is that it doesn't matter what, if they feel like cancelling someone today, they're gonna cancel someone today. Whereas as like, YouTubers, I think it's a little harder to get randomly cancelled like this.

Especially with Destiny's following. Like, wasn't Destiny the one who had like, porn on his computer? That one time?

Simone Collins: I was kind of bad at engaging with Destiny's content. It's not exactly like

Malcolm Collins: I find it incredibly boring.

Simone Collins: Yeah, the only Destiny content I've watched is [00:30:00] just content that has other people that I really like and I could probably now don't want to be associated

Malcolm Collins: with him, so Well, Sydney, you not have that reaction.

When you hear the Neil Gaiman thing, you were like, it doesn't make me think less of him.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm like, fine. I mean, I think less of him now if, if what you say is true that he Yeah. That culture other, that makes Yeah. But like him yeah, I guess, you know, leveraging his status is a very, you know, wealthy

Yeah. Here's like he with status, a dominant position. Yeah. I mean, it, it's, it, he made them call him. Were like, how dare he, you know, as a more powerful man, take advantage of these young women and, and then be in dominant positions. And I'm like, dude, you're. Fifty Shades of Grey, man. Like, this is, this is a very common female fantasy.

This is

Malcolm Collins: like, no, Neil Gaiman is like literal Fifty Shades of Grey. Like, he's like an actor on the table.

Simone Collins: What, what, the, the scenario of quote unquote abuse that you're describing here is like the plot line of 93 percent of all romance novels, I really don't see the problem here. You [00:31:00] know, people may be retroactively deciding that it wasn't great for them, and that's a product of our culture.

Not really anything that I think he did wrong. However, I Yeah, this this is different. What's happening here actually with Destiny's decidedly not women's fantasy. I guess it's, it is very popular for women to like guys going down on them. I am, I guess in the minority that really finds it. No, it's not that popular.

It's

Malcolm Collins: not that popular. It shows

Simone Collins: up a lot. Here's my problem is I haven't like checked in on what's popular for. Over a year now on gone wild audio, but like a really big problem. I show up a

Malcolm Collins: lot in women's porn actually, you're right about that.

Simone Collins: Yeah, and it is so like, if it's a major turn off to you and you're just like going through and then it comes up, you're just like, like all of a sudden, like you trigger warning, please.

Like, why is that here? Just don't but yeah, I mean, maybe that's, that's another issue is what's going on here with [00:32:00] women and Destiny. really kind of bucks the the female fantasy. This is not, this is not out of a fantasy novel at all.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Well, okay. So here's another thing we can, we can talk about is, is when is our buck going to come home on, on, on controversy?

I will say if people are like, and this is like perving on people on discord and stuff like that. Like apparently he does like even as like a not safer word on people where I'm like, People are like, oh, Malcolm, you know, you might do that if you were ever drunk on discord. And, and one of the, one of the funny things recently on a discord, I was talking at night, and somebody was like, you know, if it's nighttime, he's probably drunk.

And I'm like, yeah, that is true. If I am talking on discord at night, I am 100 percent drunk. But also like you, you find

Simone Collins: like live action porn to be actively disgusting. So like the idea that you would request nudes from someone. Yeah, I definitely

Malcolm Collins: wouldn't request nudes. Well, but I, I don't know, like [00:33:00] if somebody was like hitting on me or something or like told me they were interested.

Simone Collins: If anything, it would turn you on because of the fact that they sent you nudes, but you probably wouldn't open the image file aside to like verify that they did. Probably, I'd be like, hey! I think, but merely the fact that they would do that would be the thing that would turn you on.

Malcolm Collins: I'll actually take it back.

If you died and I had to find a new wife, I can definitely see myself, like, accidentally stepping on some bombshells

Simone Collins: in

Malcolm Collins: terms of Hitting on fans.

Simone Collins: I guess I better not die.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you protect me from a lot of sexual scandals, Simone.

Simone Collins: Maybe we need to set up some kind of AI version of me that will like, personally select and vet your future wife?

And then you just have to go with whatever A. I. Simone, Simone, selects, yeah, like Simone has chosen your wife. You must listen to her.

Malcolm Collins: Talk that Mormon story where one Mormon wife did that.

Simone Collins: I think this has happened a couple of times. Yeah, there was at [00:34:00] least one Mormon wife story we heard where like a, a, one.

Because per Mormon understandings of, of how kind of death works. You don't get to go to heaven and live together forever with your husband and just your husband. If you're a wife and you die before him and then he remarries, you're going to have to live with his second wife too. So this one wife gets terminally ill and she says to her husband, like, listen, man, like, This isn't just for you.

If I have to live with this woman in all eternity, I get to choose your next wife. Yeah so she did. And they got married and it was great. And I think it's very nice, you know, that the, you know, wife number two got got her blessing. More

Malcolm Collins: explicitly, she got on a preselected list and you had to choose from the

Simone Collins: Sister Wives in Heaven and that's nice.

Malcolm Collins: Well, okay, I've been trying to think of like other potential, I think one of the interesting things as well in terms of like us knowing a lot of celebrity type people some been on the show, some haven't been on the show, is [00:35:00] if you hang out with them, you get a really clear picture really quickly what sort of scandals they might get involved in.

I guess I don't.

Simone Collins: I always assume the very best of everyone and I don't assume that anyone has ever done anything wrong.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no. Okay, but we just, the problem is, is the types of celebrity types that we hang out with just wouldn't do something like that. They, they, their, their scandals would be very limited.

So, obviously the most potentially scandal prone from the perspective of other people would be Ayla. Ayla would never get into a scandal where she, it was shown that she had intentionally wronged anyone.

Simone Collins: The underrated thing about Ayla is that she is actually one of the most pure and wholesome people in the entire world. And people just like assume that because of, you know, like her her like, I don't know, theming and career, that she is not wholesome. But she is She

Malcolm Collins: doesn't get into the scandals.

What scandal? Okay, so the one where it [00:36:00] turned out that she'd had sex more times in a year than she had bathed that year. That's

Simone Collins: not a scandal. That's just a fun fact. It went

Malcolm Collins: viral. It's a

Simone Collins: Yeah, that's, that's, that's, what? A fun fact that goes viral. Like, that's, you know, Pluto being named not a planet anymore also went viral.

That's not a scandal. I get what you mean, but I

Malcolm Collins: guess I don't consider it a normal scandal because she didn't wrong anyone. It's just Ayla being Ayla. Like where like, but what I mean by that scandal is you would have guessed her to get in that type of scandal. Like, if somebody gave you a list of scandals, you'd be like, Oh, that one's Ayla you're doing match the scandal to the friend.

You know, I I I could guess the type of scandal But no,

Simone Collins: I honestly, the only reason that it would be is that Ayla is the only person who is wholesome and pure enough to be honest about something like that. Which again, ah, people are missing it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, or like Raziv. I can tell pretty quickly from a list of scandals which one Raziv had actually gotten into.

And I, I'll tell you right now, the scandal that Raziv would get into, it would be the one where he thought he could get a rise out of [00:37:00] somebody by pretending to be a racist, and that person took him to be an actual racist. Because he loves doing that. That's like one of his biggest vices is when he thinks he can like freak somebody out by saying something that appears like super over the line.

If it's like a factual statement. And he could so get in trouble by doing that at the wrong time in front of the wrong person. Come on, you know that. Or okay, who, we recently did a thing with Leaflet. I can't imagine Leaflet getting any trouble for anything. I just don't think that she's, like, goes out socially enough to, to, to do some, do wrong by people in that way.

She has gotten in trouble a few times, but every time was for being mildly conservative. That's like her.

Simone Collins: No, I would, yeah, it's for agreeing with sensible reactions to things, when she And not backing down. Would be expected to be like, Oh, I'm outraged! Allow me to clutch my pearls! When instead she's like Yeah, I mean, [00:38:00] I agree, because they're right.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah I, I, actually, if I see her getting in trouble for something, it's like, for example, something like actually really egregiously racist happens, but she doesn't understand it's racism, and she refuses to back down and apologize, because she doesn't know. Because she didn't know it was racism at the time.

Simone Collins: Hmm, maybe. And it

Malcolm Collins: ends up spiraling out of control. Because she, I mean, she wouldn't do that with the, the monkey comment around the BLM riots. That, she's like, I didn't mean it that way.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I mean, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, well what do you think I am going to get cancelled for? Or you are going to get cancelled for if we're going to get cancelled for something?

Simone Collins: What what seems to be the most common pattern is people don't like the way we parent. So we're going to be canceled repeatedly like

Malcolm Collins: hitting the kid thing sticks and it doesn't stick.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but I mean, just in general, like, there will be something else about the way that we parent, like for, for example, when our kids get older, we're probably going to create LLCs for [00:39:00] them and have them start companies.

And I could see there being scandals around how we manage their money with them, for example. You know, like, Oh, that the Collins is, are just exploiting their children for child labor. And they're really having a ton of money or sorry, having a ton of kids to make money off of them or something like that.

I

Malcolm Collins: mean, I hope they make a little money for me. I mean, it's like the Jackson 5. You keep having them until you have one that's a star.

Simone Collins: Yeah, I really I have no idea. But like, yeah, I think a lot of it just comes from a misunderstanding of how we're raising our kids. You know, they would, they would assume that like the LLCs that have been created were like all just for us to make money when really like it all belongs to the kid or something, but stuff, stuff like that is kind of what I expect.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but it's been interesting to be watching this destiny thing of it destroys his career. Honestly, I'm a little sad because it feels, I mean, it's immoral. But it's expected and almost pedantic that the degree to like, Oh, this'll end his career, you know, everyone's [00:40:00] like right now and I'm like, I mean, you didn't think destiny was this type of person?

Like, I guess maybe that's just like what I assumed. I was like, yeah, he's like, really has problems with sexual control. It's not that he meant to like hurt this other person. I mean, the recording stuff without people's consent is really bad. But to him, these people are discord bunnies and like, You know, whatever.

Maybe it's bad to dehumanize people because of their relation to you within like a certain social ecosystem, but you know, he's got millions of followers, right? Like he's emperor of his little castle. It's a bit like, you know, when people expect, you know, Elon Musk or Louis the 14th to expect to, to, to have the sexual rules around their behavior that somebody else would have around their behavior.

It's like. Bro, like it doesn't work that way. I, I, it's actually interesting that I think his arousal patterns are the most subversive thing about him. Not [00:41:00] that he's a sex maniac, given his position.

Simone Collins: Sorry, she's being really difficult again. To me, this. To me, this feels like, if anything, a low grade market correction. He did something not nice by sharing something he shouldn't have shared. And now he's getting heat for it. And I don't really see that as, you know, groundbreaking. And it's nice to see that happening to me.

It doesn't feel like, you know, a leftist cancellation. It doesn't feel like any sort of witch hunt. It just feels like a lot of people being like, Oh, that's not cool. And it being scandalous enough for some people to talk about it because it's salacious but it feels Fairly grounded and I like that

Malcolm Collins: you like this scandal because it's just so benign

Simone Collins: Yeah, just kind of like oh you you shouldn't do that.

That's that's not nice kind of you know how when our kids do things that we don't think they should do or like hey, this is Not a very nice thing to do and here's why we might make fun of them [00:42:00] for a bit about it, and then we just kind of move on.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I appreciate you talking through this with me, Simone, because I thought this was an interesting scandal from my perspective mostly in terms of the feelings that it elicited within me.

And I wonder if other people have felt the same way about this scandal. Or if I'm unique, as you said, like maybe most people feel the same way about the Neil Gaiman stuff as this. I was just going over the Neil Gaiman stuff like, this is like regular, like BDSM stuff, like the bros of celebrity.

Like, of course he's gonna, if people consent, they consent. Like I need clear lack of consent for me to be upset about this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway. Of course, you know, my overarching moral is these people should be focused on something more important with their time and their lives. That's what I would say more broadly, but they don't ascribe to my religious beliefs.

So, like,

Simone Collins: I guess a similar issue with the destiny thing, you know, all the quote unquote victims are people who may have been [00:43:00] exchanging intimacy for access to a circle or some kind of platform. Of

Malcolm Collins: course they were.

Simone Collins: And so are they really victims? You know, kind of, that's what, what do you expect? You know.

You're playing in this world. You're doing this because you kind of expect something. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: like some of these people have like, boyfriends and stuff, and some of that, like, it's so gross, like

Simone Collins: Well, but like, who cares? It doesn't matter if it's gross or not. It's just that, like, if you're going to play it fast and lose sexually stuff like this doesn't happen.

It sounds like victim blaming, but like, you know,

Malcolm Collins: No, I actually, I don't disagree. I do not think it's victim blaming. And I think that people act like there is never, Look, if a girl walked through a back alley naked, like, We need to have a discussion about what just happened there. Like if a guy, you know, if you have the, you know, die hard with a vengeance scene, right?

You know, you're walking through, you know, whatever neighborhood was like, I hate inwards on, on a sign and you get beaten [00:44:00] up.

Speaker: Now you got about 10 seconds before those guys see you.

When they do, they will kill you. You understand? You are about to have a very bad day.

Speaker 2: Tell me about it.

Malcolm Collins: So you can be like that. Yeah. How dare you blame him for doing that? That's victim blaming. And it's like, well. I mean, but bro, like, should've known what would happen, like, It's a conversation

Simone Collins: we'll certainly have with our kids, like, If, if you plan on doing, doing these things with your boyfriend or with your girlfriend, Expect these risks to be at play And it's on you, like, you're, you're taking a calculated risk every time you do this thing, and,

Malcolm Collins: I think it's also true as people of certain power in society especially if they're in the celebrity scene.

If you are a girl and you get alone with a guy in one of these circles or something like that I, I, what I would say to my daughter is just don't do not get alone with famous musicians. Do not get alone with if famous musicians are a thing in the future, whatever the next version is, I guess, streamers, right?

Simone Collins: [00:45:00] Here's the thing is, I think that for most people who get into close proximity with these people and then ending up having some kind of intimate encounter. It is a worthwhile price of admission for them. All right, like,

Malcolm Collins: I'd be like, I'd be like, how do I know the girl would be like, and I'd be like, like, you know, like, for example, like Jordan Peterson, I'm not afraid of him doing this to anyone.

Again, we're talking about like, what's his next scandal going to be? His next scandal is going to be. Some other drug scandal or some other his actual life is like a disaster, but it's not going to be pressuring young girls into sex. He, he, he doesn't seem to have that particular temptation. Or maybe the fallout was his daughter.

I could see that, but like, there's like a category of like realistic, like explosions from people that you expect. And Yeah, I think that category [00:46:00] and being able to judge that category is important to also maintaining your own safety around certain people.

Simone Collins: Oh, like. When they, when they do wrong by you or the world, how are they going to do wrong by you?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. How are they, how are they going to cheat you? How are they going to screw you over? How are they going to, you know, and the vast

Simone Collins: majority of people you ever know in the world, the vast majority of your friends are only going to do wrong by you by flaking on you constantly and not showing up because that's what people do now.

But there are some people who go further, you know, maybe they will use you as a. Like mental emotional, like trash can, maybe they will try to exploit you for money. Maybe they're trying to utilize your resources and you should be aware of that. But yeah, anyway, it takes two to tango, which is probably one of the more controversial, controversial stances in the pragmatist guide to relationships where we point out that like, yeah, abusive relationships or just sort of any malfeasance [00:47:00] in, in human relations.

involves typically participation from two parties. I mean, obviously this is not the case for like someone being attacked and raped, but like if you're talking about an exchange like that, the, those being described here it's, it's. These are people who chose to be involved with each other, so.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I love you to death Simone.

You are a great wife. I guess we're going straight to dinner now?

Do you want to push? Yeah. All right, ready? One, two, three. You want to go