i love your point about technique that when you're talking about character of leaders, you can't boil that down to a technique or a measurable metric. Ah, so maybe let's shift then to like, systems and churches. How do we think about healthy churchs and systems without also falling the trap of technique? Ye am, well, i'll say this briefly. We have an upcoming episode, a bonus episode, that's all about kind of institutions, sort of the failure of institution. Here an good faith o, can say, i'm not sure if you're aware of this, that institutions are made in the image. It's something you enter into in faith, and then you