Rhetoric of Distrust

Chuck Todd begins with how Trump continues to damage himself with tone-deaf comments about Jeffrey Epstein that reveal his complete lack of empathy for victims, viewing himself rather than trafficking survivors as the real victim in the scandal. He argues that if Trump truly wants to move past the Epstein controversy, he should pivot to something that could actually win him praise—intervening in Gaza to provide humanitarian aid, which could even earn him the Nobel Peace Prize he desperately wants while addressing voter discomfort with Israel's actions. He also explores emerging Democratic Party fractures over police funding that hint at presidential ambitions from figures like Cory Booker, Trump's concerning signals about abandoning Taiwan, and the troubling spectacle of MAGA influencers like Dan Bongino backtracking on Epstein file demands with McCarthy-esque conspiracy theories.

Progressive media entrepreneur Tara McGowan joins Chuck to discuss her journey from Democratic operative to founder of Courier Newsroom, a values-driven journalism platform that openly rejects traditional notions of journalistic neutrality. McGowan argues that independent journalism freed from corporate ownership constraints can better serve democracy by being "offensively oriented" with good information rather than defensively trying to appear neutral while misinformation spreads unchecked. She traces how American media has returned to its openly partisan 19th-century roots after a brief mid-20th-century experiment with objectivity, explaining why Courier embraces progressive values while maintaining journalistic integrity and how the conservative media machine that emerged after Watergate has successfully won the information war by understanding that politics and media have always been intertwined.

The conversation explores the structural challenges facing modern media, from the collapse of the newspaper "bundle" that once accidentally informed audiences to the dominance of big tech algorithms that can make or break media companies overnight. McGowan discusses why individual personalities now earn trust better than institutional brands, how right-wing podcasts excel at moving audiences while building relationships with them, and why Democrats lost their early dominance in new media due to a consultant culture that stifled adaptation to the modern media ecosystem. She argues that the future belongs to younger Democratic talent who are native to digital platforms and compares today's media landscape to the muckraking era of the early 20th century, while addressing how Trump's Epstein controversy represents more than just algorithmic manipulation and reflects his broader pattern of covering up damaging information.

Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment!

Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction

03:30 Trump keeps digging his own grave when talking about Epstein

04:30 Trump’s “poaching employees” comment shows no empathy for victims

07:15 Trump underestimates the passion in his base for Epstein victims

09:15 Trump doesn’t see the victims, he sees himself as a victim

10:15 If Trump wants to turn the page, he needs to intervene in Gaza* 

12:45 Feeding Gaza could win Trump the Nobel peace prize he covets

15:15 Voters on both sides are uncomfortable with what Israel is doing

17:45 It would be in Trump’s, Israel’s, and America’s interest to intervene in Gaza

19:00 Democratic party infighting breaks out over bill for police funding

21:15 Cory Booker is showing his presidential ambitions 

23:15 Elected Democrats haven’t figured out how to challenge Trump

26:00 Foreshadowing for Democrats internal civil war?

28:15 Trump only governs for his supporters, Democrats can’t do the same

30:15 The most talented politicians serve all voters and their base simultaneously

31:00 Trump denies Taiwanese president visit to New York

32:00 Trump sends message he wouldn’t intervene on behalf of Taiwan

33:15 MAGA influencers are backtracking on Epstein files

34:15 Dan Bongino puts out McCarthy-esque tweet over files

36:00 Bongino says he found something “shocking”, but can't say what it is?

38:30 Bongino is terrified his audience will think he’s a turncoat

41:00 Bongino is doing terrible damage to the rule of law

42:00 Tara McGowan joins the Chuck ToddCast! 

43:30 Tara's political origin story 

46:00 Founding Courier Newsroom 

46:45 Why lean against journalistic neutrality? 

47:45 Independent journalism isn't beholden to corporate owners 

50:00 Courier isn't partisan, but has values they won't compromise 

51:15 Media was openly partisan in the 19th century, becoming so again

 52:30 Do you worry about reporting being tainted by bias? 

53:45 The antidote to misinformation is offensively oriented good information 

55:15 Media is currently operating out of fear and favor under Trump 

57:30 The newspaper used to be a bundle that accidentally informed people 

59:15 Watergate created the modern conservative media machine 

1:00:30 What does the right wing media do well that you want to emulate? 

1:01:45 The right understands the importance of winning the information war 

1:03:45 There's always been a convergence of politics and media 

1:05:15 Media companies get put into a "box" based on their perceived leanings 

1:06:15 Right wing podcasts are moving their audiences and moving with them 

1:07:00 Do you struggle finding conservative voices to platform? 

1:08:30 Individual personalities earn trust better than brands 

1:09:30 Downsides to the influencer media model? 

1:12:30 There's value in aggregating good journalism 

1:13:15 All the persuasion will be targeted at millennials 

1:14:00 Distribution of media is at the mercy of big tech algorithms 

1:15:30 Epstein isn't purely an algorithm creation, Trump is covering up something 

1:18:30 Young people don't trust either party but really don't like Trump 

1:19:30 Facebook changed algorithm and decimated Daily Caller and Buzzfeed 

1:21:00 MAGA doesn't like consolidated power, and big tech has amassed it 

1:23:00 How to adjust strategy when the algorithm changes 

1:25:30 How did Democrats go from dominating new media to losing it? 

1:28:30 Democrats' consultant culture strangled adaptation 

1:30:00 The younger Democrat talent is native to the modern media ecosystem 

1:32:00 Modern media is looking like the muckrakers of the early 20th century

1:32:30 Chuck's thoughts on interview with Tara McGowan 

1:34:00 Ask Chuck 

1:34:15 What to make of Trump denying disaster aid to blue states? 

1:38:30 How should the Democrats schedule their primary calendar? 

1:44:00 Miami vs UF football + Pro wrestling 

1:46:00 Can Democrats be competitive in Ohio in 26' and 28'?