This week's guest is one of those people whose breadth and depth is an inspiration. As you are about to hear, Jenny Grettve is an author, a philosopher, a systems thinker who takes her ideas and brings them alive in the world. She's the founder and director of When! When!, a design studio that tests and actively implements ideas and projects on systemic transformation with the goal of slowing down our speeding meta crisis. When!When! regards simplicity as a tool for innovation and create a beautiful and regenerative life for all. Those who work in and for When!When! believe that at the core of our planetary problems lie vulnerable human ponderings about why we live, what life is meant to be and how that is deeply intertwined with our economic structure. By daring to open up dialogues on economy and emotions, fear and trust, technology and using fewer resources, but also on hope and how all living things profoundly need each other, they believe they can unlock new possibilities for our shared futures.

Jenny's heart-mind is huge and deep and we explored many areas of the transformation that's coming, from the evolution of a primary school along Doughnut Economic lines to the future of architecture, to the role of systems thinking in our political, social and, in the end, human, evolution. It was a truly heart-warming conversation and I hope it helps you, too, to think to the edges of yourself.

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