If chickens can’t act as chickens and humans can’t act as humans, Western civilization is not making progress. So observes Mary Harrington, contributing editor for Unherd and most recently, author of Feminism Against Progress. While society champions the defying of limits, our natures - as humans, as men, as women - always reemerge.

In this episode, Mary and Grant discuss the apocalypse, gender, and eros, asking: What if our idea of the traditional family isn’t traditional enough? Can technology suppress human nature? And, what will it take to garner enough enthusiasm to bring new people into this life?