Money in Politics: A Legal Examination

Chuck Todd begins with new polling that shows that the more Donald Trump enacts his promised agenda, the less the public likes it. He also highlights that Trump is underwater with the public on immigration, which was his strongest issue. Chuck also discusses the many distraction tactics Trump has unsuccessfully deployed to distract from the Epstein files, and previews the brewing battle over gerrymandering.

Then, Harvard professor and former presidential candidate Lawrence Lessig joins Chuck Todd to tackle one of America's most persistent political problems: campaign finance reform. Despite overwhelming public support for getting money out of politics, meaningful reform has remained elusive for decades. Lessig discusses his innovative legal strategy to challenge Super PACs at the Supreme Court, arguing that if direct campaign contributions can be limited, then unlimited Super PAC spending should face the same restrictions. He explains how an originalist interpretation of the First Amendment could win over conservative justices like Barrett and Gorsuch, potentially ending the era of unlimited political spending that has dominated elections since Citizens United.

The conversation expands beyond campaign finance to explore broader constitutional reforms, including the possibility of a constitutional convention that could address everything from electoral college reform to fractional voting systems. Lessig argues that both Trump supporters and traditional Democrats share a desire to reduce the influence of money in politics, creating unprecedented bipartisan momentum for change. He envisions citizens assemblies that could help reconnect politics with ordinary Americans' concerns, while discussing practical reforms like multi-member districts and proportional electoral vote allocation that states could implement immediately. The episode offers both hope and concrete pathways for restoring democratic governance "by the people" rather than by wealthy donors and special interests.

Finally, Chuck gives his thoughts on The Open Championship, the lack of leadership for the Washington Nationals and answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment.

Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Introduction

02:45 The more Trump succeeds on his terms, the less popular he becomes

04:15 Trump’s aggressive immigration approach is receiving backlash

08:00 The public is starting to feel the pain from Trump’s economic agenda

10:00 A strong majority believe Trump isn’t prioritizing deporting criminals

12:00 Immigration was Trump’s best issue, now he’s underwater in polling

14:00 Deportations will have a massive negative effect on the economy

15:30 All of Trump’s policies will contribute to inflation

17:15 The public wants the Fed to remain independent.

19:15 Trump’s approval rating has continually dropped

21:00 America could end up with a string of one term presidents

22:00 89% of Americans want the Epstein files released

23:00 Tulsi Gabbard’s Obama/Russia conspiracy is a distraction from Epstein

26:00 Russian election interference has been proven

28:00 Trump’s latest distraction is demanding sports teams change names

29:45 Trump demanded release of grand jury testimony to buy time

32:15 Michael Wolff says Epstein believed Trump turned him in 

33:45 Huge battle brewing over gerrymandering/redistricting

35:15 Democrats willing to cede the moral high ground and aggressively gerrymander

37:00 Trump has normalized anti-democratic behavior

39:00 A constitutional convention could address many modern issues

40:15 Professor Lawrence Lessig joins The Chuck ToddCast! 

42:15 Why can't we get traction on campaign finance reform? 

43:45 Most Americans want reform but don't think it's possible 

45:45 Is Trump's "pay to play" system making reform more likely? 

47:30 Effort to challenge Super PACs at the Supreme Court 

49:30 If outside money isn't quid pro quo, then why aren't campaign contributions? 

50:45 If you can limit campaign contributions, why not Super PACs? 

52:45 When can you get your case in front of the Supreme Court? 

54:15 The 1st amendment doesn't say anything about contributions 

56:15 Does Congress need to pass a new law if you win the case? 

57:15 Winning the case would effectively end Super PACs 

1:00:30 The two justices to win over are Barrett and Gorsuch 

1:02:30 Winning the argument by following originalism 

1:04:30 There are clear examples of quid pro quo for donations 

1:05:30 Will they try to change contribution limits if you win? 

1:06:15 Trump supporters also want money out of politics 

1:08:30 Electors not being able to vote their conscience is unconstitutional 

1:11:00 Conservatives have been pining for a constitutional convention 

1:12:00 What issues would be on the table at a convention? 

1:13:45 There's bipartisan energy to reform campaign finance 

1:15:15 Issues addressed at a convention would need support of 34 states 

1:17:15 What would surprise the founders the most about modern politics? 

1:20:15 The voters need to be trusted, or it's not a government "By the People" 

1:22:15 We should have citizens assemblies in the states to review amendments 

1:24:00 Politics has become detached from citizens' concerns 

1:25:45 Fractional voting would be healthy for our democracy 

1:28:00 State legislatures can decide how to deliver electoral votes 

1:29:00 Unintended consequences of fractional voting 

1:30:45 Viability of multi-member districts? 

1:33:30 Unequal representation between big and small states in the Senate 

1:34:45 Political environment is ripe for a convention 

1:38:15 Many donors would love to do away with Super PACs

1:40:00 Chuck's thoughts on interview with Larry Lessig 

1:41:15 The great weather at the Open Championship made it boring 

1:42:15 The moment is never too big for Scottie Scheffler 

1:43:00 The Washington Nationals have no leadership 

1:46:00 Ask Chuck 1:46:15 Should we hold a constitutional convention? 

1:48:00 Could Ohio's gubernatorial and senate races be competitive? 

1:51:45 A Democrat wins a statewide race in Texas when ____ happens?