Navigating Desires and Societal Judgments

In this episode, the hosts engage in a deep discussion about the controversial downfall of Jack Murphy, a former conservative influencer, and whether kink shaming should have a place in the new right ideology. They explore sexual fetishes, societal norms around sexuality, and the implications of shaming non-normative arousal patterns. The conversation also touches on traditional values, arousal pathways, and the potential consequences of making private sexual preferences public. Join us for a candid, thought-provoking discussion on the balance between sexual morality and personal freedom in conservative spaces.

[00:00:00]

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I had an interesting thing that happened in an episode recently where Ry Nationalist was on. We were talking about Jack Murphy, who used to be a famous sort of conservative influencer who had this, this club and this podcast and everything like that.

And then it turned out that he was in to being, I. Cued specifically his girlfriend sleeping with other people and into putting things in his butt and this, we're gonna go over all of that. I wasn't like, we weren't conservative influencers when that happened, right. So, like, we had nothing to say on that, when that happened, but when I heard this, my first intuition was to be like, oh, I feel kind of bad for him.

Like. I didn't have like embarrassing fetishes that I had to worry about like that, you know, like this is what turned him on, you know? And you don't

Simone Collins: get to choose what turns you on and what turns you on isn't a reflection of your morality either.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Tamura, I [00:01:00] miss me something. My computer's hard drive. I need you to dump it in the bathtub and fry it. All done. Please rest in peace, Satoru.

Malcolm Collins: And it made me think a question, right? Like. I want to go into all of this again, and I want to go into it, you know, as the, the new right.

And the tech right is sort of consolidating as a ideological perspective. Okay. And you and I are some of the, I'd say primary, regular influencers shaping that ideological perspective. What should be like as we unc, UNC ourselves from the left, as we Debra de brainwash, deprogram ourselves, what should our perspective be on kink shaming?

I like is kink shaming [00:02:00] something that we should continue to do? Is it certain kinks where we should continue to do it? And here, I would note when I talk about kink shaming, and I need to be as clear as I can about this,

Simone Collins: hmm.

Malcolm Collins: This does not include instances in which somebody else without your consent forces you to participate in their kink.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That

Simone Collins: is,

Malcolm Collins: that's very different. They talk to you about their kink. That means they dress up as their kink in a public context. That means they go to children's book readings in their kink. Here I am talking about things that people do in private, and the reason why I think it's, it's bad to pretend like.

All kinks are bad is, well, our book, the Pregnant Guided Sexuality, we did a, a survey on this just to see how common kinks are, right? Like non-normative arousal patterns. And we found that the average person is aroused by 22 weird things. People have. K people have a, a . I need to cut that out.

'cause I had no more swearing on this show. [00:03:00] Mm-hmm. A basket of kinks. It was 23.1 for men and 20.8 for women. So not even like that different. And if you're like, how clustered are these? There was a study of 2,300 people in the UK showing that roughly 75% had some kink. So the vast of people. Have a kink.

Mm-hmm. Our society works because we do not talk about it.

Alright, kid. Here's the deal. At any given time,

Around 75% of the people you interact with are perverts in some way.

Most of them right here in Manhattan, and most of 'em are decent enough. They're just trying to make a living cab drivers not as many as you'd think. Humans, for the most part, don't have a clue. They don't want one or need one, either.

They're happy, they think they have a good bead on things, but why? Why a big secret? People are smart. They can handle it. A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals. And you know it. 1500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was the center of the universe. [00:04:00] 500 years ago, everybody knew the earth was flat.

And 15 minutes ago you knew that people were

Mostly just turned on by the opposite sex.

Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.

What's the catch? The catch? The catch is

just because you're aroused by something doesn't mean you have to indulge in it

And That doesn't mean it's okay to talk about this stuff in public. You keep that to yourself

or.

you will sever every human contact. Nobody will ever know you exist anywhere, ever.

I'll give you the sunrise to think it over.

Hey, is it worth it?

Malcolm Collins: If you're strong enough.

But it's, it's a thing where it's like you can have something unusual that arouses you without communicating it to other people. 100%.

Simone Collins: And without acting on it.

Malcolm Collins: And without acting on it. But there, there's, there's multiple categories here. Like if it's deleterious to other people, I can see, do not act on it, right?

Mm-hmm. If it is like there's, you know, if, if it's like, you know, just your masturbating to it or something like that, I think that's a [00:05:00] very different category than going out and doing it in public. Like say if you're gay, right? Well, that might be a too offensive one to choose. What's a less offensive one to choose?

Because I was gonna say like, it's, it's harder to get married and have lots of kids if you don't have a lot of money if you're gay. So it's better to just if you, if you're not like a successful tech bro, just. Not act on it if your end outcome is having a lot of kids. But that doesn't mean that like there's necessarily this huge moral negative to like masturbating to it or something.

And by the way, this does reduce the incident of like people like, oh, like masturbating to something makes you want it more. And it's like, no, like the actual studies are very categorical on this.

Simone Collins: You know, ALIST, latest substack as of the time of this recording is her earnest argument. In, in following up on her most controversial tweet saying that if we had more ai, PDA file porn, fewer children would be harmed.

So she's making the same argument. [00:06:00] Well, I,

Malcolm Collins: that is what got me thinking about this, but I wasn't Oh, really? To include that as part of the argument. Because I'm just pointing what you're saying. No, I'm saying that gets too spicy. I'm just talking generally kink shaming on the right, but, but you know, if you look at like porn more generally Yeah.

Like the idea that, oh, porn makes you do bad things. Mm-hmm. In countries where porn was illegal and then it was made legal, the amount of child, essay decreased by 50%. This is the check. Yeah. This,

Simone Collins: it is. Clearly if you care about children, you are not going to ban porn.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. But, but it's like, okay, when people don't have access, and they, and it was repeated in other countries where they did this, it's just like a really persistent thing mm-hmm.

In the United States as access to the internet increases, which is basically access to porn. Rates of sexual assault also go down. Like, this is a very clear correlation. You are arguing for a aesthetic and not real, like an individual who says, I am against Child sa. And I am against pornography is [00:07:00] similar to a environmentalist who is like, I am against global warming and I am against nuclear power plants.

It's like those two things might be aesthetically aligned, but if you logically actually cared about the first thing, you wouldn't be pro the second thing. Mm-hmm. Because again, the, the people who are engaging in certain, but what I, what I wanted to get to here was this idea of, of this guy. What he did, his downfall.

Other conservatives, because there's other conservatives. The guy who ran the Proud Boys, apparently he did a thing that apparently a lot of people have criticized him for. Being like, oh, you know, anal stimulation in males is something that you can try without being like less masculine. Right. Okay. And apparently, I mean, just the

Simone Collins: sheer number of dudes who show up in ERs with I slipped in the shower and something random up their butt shows that this is actually way more common than people wanna let on.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, but I mean also like biologically, like if you're just looking at like the, the, the stimulation points of males, like the interior prostate is [00:08:00] one of the stimulation points Yeah. That a person could be using if we're

Simone Collins: talking just pure logistics. Yeah. If you're looking for more ways to feel things.

Yeah. If you're looking

Malcolm Collins: for pure logistics of how to maximize your turn on. Yeah. And, and the. Funniest thing about Simone and I is, I think one of the reasons we engage in sexuality topics so much is we find it so intellectually perplexing. Like I think if I actually had like a bunch of skeletons in my closet or something, I wouldn't be doing this because I'd be so afraid.

But like actually we're more like, yeah, humans, like sex is gross. Like this, this whole thing is gross and, and you can intellectualize it or engage with it, but some people, well, it's like

Simone Collins: watching. You know, pigeons court each other and being kind of disgusted and asking why do they do that?

That is, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But, but I also, you know, feel like Jack Murphy, for example, he didn't choose to have this like he was dealing with an No no. An entire category [00:09:00] of temptation that I have never had to deal with. Yeah. And that's rough. It's building up an influencer career is. Hard work. Okay. It is a lot of work and a lot of risk.

Yeah. And to have done that and then have that destroyed no, no. He did other things when he was caught with this. You know, we'll get, we'll get into all that. It made me be like. Should we normalize this in, in the new Right. Not the old right? The old right. Can do whatever the hell they want. Like the religious, funny duddies.

Okay. They're always gonna

Simone Collins: be sex negative. I don't that only sex, marriage,

Malcolm Collins: whatever, right? But we're not that, you know? Yeah. So what do, what do, what do we think about this? Let's go into this. So, this is, I'm gonna be combining some various articles and some various AI asks and stuff like that. Okay.

In like a narrative sense where I felt like it was interesting information.

Simone Collins: All right. He

Malcolm Collins: incurred the wrs of the online right when he rudely responded to podcaster Sidney Watson, asking him about the [00:10:00] article. The article in question was a 2018 piece Murphy wrote. On cultivating erotic energy from a surprising source.

The source being sending his girlfriend to have sex with other men. Yeah. And if I put this, but he was, he publicly talked about this. It wasn't like it leaked. No, you publicly talked about this. Wow. Okay. So if I, if I,

Simone Collins: so he felt really comfortable about this. He

Malcolm Collins: felt really comfortable about this.

Yeah. If I post the stories here, it's today I sent my adoring, loyal, hot young girlfriend of two years to have sex with a stranger from Tinder. She's currently at his apartment, checked in with me via text, and it's per route. Presumably sucking and effing her way to a good time. Oh, I'm alone writing. Be happier.

So he has a humiliation fetish

Simone Collins: too. Be happier. No, he, that blog post was part of it. He was,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. He was

Simone Collins: jizzing onto his audience with that. That is, that's like

Malcolm Collins: including your audience in this, which again, I don't think is great. Like I think that, that, that is, that is like, Hey, you guys wanna be a part of like me?

[00:11:00] No, no, no. Using,

Simone Collins: using an audience to get yourself off. I'm not like, no.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, so in 2015, Murphy wrote an art a detailing the experience of his girlfriend to have sex with this danger from Tinder,

Simone Collins: Uhhuh

Malcolm Collins: describing it as a source of erotic energy. He framed cook holding as a manifestation of his control writing.

Today I sent my adoring a loyal hung blah, blah, blah, that suggests he was experimenting and intellectualizing his unconventional sexual practices. And then later after that. Murphy admitted to producing and posting amateur pornographic content with his fiance around 2019, driven by financial desperation.

He stated we didn't have any money coming in and there were no jobs at all. I was lost and desperate, so my fiance and I did cam porn at home. People paid us to F on the couch. We made thousands of dollars. These videos live stream publicly on platforms for tips, included acts with his fiance and solo performances by Murphy.

[00:12:00] So no problem

Simone Collins: with that, that everyone's consenting there. Everyone wins there. Wait, because he clearly enjoys this and she, I guess,

Malcolm Collins: wait.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: PJ Media National File claimed that certain SIL acts involved Murphy using a dildo for anal stimulation,

for example, national file article references a torrent was a username linked to Murphy, big beard, 1000. Containing content under a folder called Bear. Oh yeah. That is definitely gay. .

Suggesting Homoerotic material. But I mean, that's for his audience, right? Yeah. Though they did know.

No, you have to know your target audience and if you're looking to make money.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. No, hold on. He knows his target audience. He [00:13:00] needs money. He also enjoys that form of stimulation. I don't think that's as suspicious anymore. I thought that you meant like a person Yeah. Annel that leaked from his computer.

But that's totally different now.

Malcolm Collins: As far as specific allegations of of gay sex, and again, I have nothing against gay sex, but I do understand why people were like, wait, you're like an alpha male influencer who's been like, follow me to get girls, and this is what you were into. Like I get the incongruency of that.

Well, there's

Simone Collins: also just the issue, which you also see with same sex especially man, man. Sex where there's just a very, very strong disgust reaction in many people and, oh, no, no, I agree. People lack the sophistication to understand that a disgusted reaction is not, does not equal this equals morally bad, which is very annoying.

Malcolm Collins: A ton of males have arousal patterns that an average person, as I've pointed out, is going to because non-normative arousal pattern. This is why there's the meme of, you know, I'll put on the screen here of the, the, the [00:14:00] anime where they, his best friend after he dies, takes this computer CPU and throws it in a bathtub.

Oh, yes,

Simone Collins: yes, yes.

Tamura, I miss me something. My computer's hard drive. I need you to dump it in the bathtub and fry it. All done. Please rest in peace, Satoru.

Simone Collins: And,

Malcolm Collins: I, I. I, I, I'd say for me what's really funny is like if you look at my unusual arousal patterns, the truth is I don't think like our audience would find it like weird or disgusting at all. What's so funny though, is like people have actually apoplectic, people have sent

Simone Collins: us emails where they're like, I know exactly what your fetishes are, and Malcolm, not once have they gotten them right.

Malcolm Collins: Nothing never happened. Yeah, yeah. Progressives would freak out. Progressives would actually like panic. Yeah. Yeah. But, but right wing people would be like,

Simone Collins: what? Well, okay. Okay. Sex negative progressives [00:15:00] though. Because I, I think most sex positive progressives know all the kinks and are like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

They're like, yeah, they're all fine. Everything goes. So, yeah.

Moderate

Malcolm Collins: that. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I guess I will moderate that, but yeah, so he, he labeled himself in one thing as Heteroflexible. Right. Okay, fine. So maybe he had, you know, male again, like, why is this, you know, again, I don't wanna say like, for, and I feel so comfortable talking about this because I am so disgusted by the idea of sleeping with me.

I'm like, oh the, the, the, like, this isn't. Like my particular closet thing. Like it's really not my particular closet thing. I'm, I'm just not gonna touch anything in that category. No, you're not. Um, But, but this, I'm like, come on guys. Like, he, he was into that. He did it at one point and now he's monogamously married with kids, right?

Like, oh, with the same

Simone Collins: woman, or is someone different?

Malcolm Collins: I think he's, yeah, I think it's the same woman kids. Oh, that makes me happy. Aw. It worked out for them.

So I had read that he had kids and I hadn't read anything about him raising [00:16:00] them alone, so I assumed he was married, but no, it turns out that he had kids and was divorced long before he ever became famous, and what he called like a blue pilled relationship, meaning he didn't probably think much of her or that it didn't go very well.

So no, he was not happily married.

Malcolm Collins: He was happy when you hear the trajectory, he really got sort of screwed over by all of this. And you know, I think he was, he was, he was putting out deal ideas that were so mainstream.

He was like partnered with Claremont, like,

Simone Collins: oh yeah, that's, no, that's the problem. You, you, he, but he made a very, very huge, and I would think obvious misstep. In doing kinky stuff while playing in the conservative realm, but that's the conversation we're having is should this still be the case? Should being kinky and conservative get you disqualified?

Yeah. As an influencer.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, that's the discussion

Simone Collins: here. I, I don't, because look, what what's your, what do you think? I know what I think,

Malcolm Collins: but before I go further, look, you, you've gotta keep in mind there is like a level of debauchery, right? Where it's like, , and debauchery should [00:17:00] not be defined by non-normative behavior.

Hmm. It should be defined by the effect it has on the self and others. Mm-hmm. So, like in Mormon circles, right? And we talk about like a lot of kinks seem to be bred by what the population did historically, right? Or, or, or negative stereotypes and. And Mormons were in ous relationships historically. Which meant that people who were okay with their partner sleeping with other people in front of them would've had more kids historically, or knowing that their partner was sleeping.

Mm-hmm. And so there's been this thing of like wife swapping and husband swapping where you do everything but full sex. And like, I would find that not just like gross, but like if you had done that with another guy in front of me, I don't know if I could get aroused by you. Like again, like it would be like, yeah, you

Simone Collins: wouldn't be able to, I just know for a fact it wouldn't happen.

Malcolm Collins: I try so hard. I try, I

Simone Collins: promise, I, I literally have bad dreams where like I'm assaulted. And I don't care about the fact that I'm like the biggest concern I have at that moment. Obviously I'm like distressed for many reasons, [00:18:00] but the biggest one is, oh my god, Malcolm will never. See attractive again, that's like the number one thought on my mind.

In addition to hating everything else, but like the number one thought is there, I know that this is true there and it sucks because you can't control that. You just can't

Malcolm Collins: control that. Yeah, I can't control that. Like I, I I. Yeah, I, I mean, there might

Simone Collins: be ways if, if, if I, I don't think so. I really, Malcolm I know you now, I know you well enough that it's just not, it wouldn't happen if this doesn't make you a bad person again.

And that's, that is how arousal works. It. This is not about what you morally condone or not. This is just about Yeah, how you feel.

Malcolm Collins: But apparently within Mormon communities, this isn't that strong. Yeah. That

Simone Collins: clearly doesn't play here, but that makes sense. That make sense. A lot of people are

Malcolm Collins: shamed like that.

This has happened and I'm like, like there's been some scandals around this and stuff like this, and it's like, what? Like why? Like this doesn't seem to hurt anyone involved. Particularly like I'm like. And if you, and if this is the, the, the, the thing that I talked about was like the, you know, the Dursleys and one of their kid ended up sleeping [00:19:00] with one of his, like, like assaulting his younger sisters and stuff like that.

When you tell someone all sex is bad, the all arousal patterns are bad. The daughters.

Simone Collins: The Duggar. Oh, you so confused. I was like, is this Yes. The nature of Dugger, not the Harry

Malcolm Collins: Potter family, the Duggars they, they end up thinking like, well, I'm a bad person sexually. They contextualize themselves that way.

Mm. And then they normalize other genuinely horrific behavior. Right. So.

And I think people can wonder why I hammer on the topic of sexuality and arousal patterns so frequently, and it's because it really is that central and important to the fight against the urban monoculture in that it is the core way that the urban monoculture peels people out of traditional cultures.

Many people within traditional cultures just don't have fully developed models. Or healthy ways of relating to their own sexuality. And so the urban monoculture can can go and where you don't have sort of mental scaffolding, they're like, oh, I'll just plug this USB stick in here and put in this self-replicating [00:20:00] mimetic set, which will eventually build out an entire world perspective.

And they do that within the field of sexuality. That's why so much of the urban monoculture focuses on this sexuality stuff. It's not just. The debauchery of the urban monoculture, it's that there are not appropriate defenses in place within many traditionalist cultures during their, uh, you know, puberty period, during their, their teen, late teen years.

That's when they're the most vulnerable. And so it is really, really important that we find ways of relating to this that did not produce vulnerabilities.

And just saying, you know, well, I'll pretend that all of this doesn't exist or that everyone's normal, or that blah blah blah. Like all of that is basically serving your children up to the urban monoculture on a platter. I.

As a, uh, analogy here, it would be a bit like, like I think we can all agree pooping is gross, but. Somebody could be like, well, what? Why are you on your show always talking [00:21:00] about pooping? And it's like, well, because for whatever reason, most of the conservative cultures started teaching kids that people don't poop and that if you poop, you're weird.

And I'm like, well, most of these kids, all of these kids are pooping. And if they think that they're gross and weird every time they're doing this. And then somebody else comes along and they're like, actually, you were lied to and abused. And it turns out everybody poops. that's gonna be potentially a compelling message to them where if you're like, no, both everyone poops and it's gross and weird

But it's like an anular bodily function and definitely not the purpose of your life. If you make it the purpose of your life or essential focus of your life, or build rituals around it, , that is a waste of your life.

, I think that that is going to be much better at preventing kids from being peeled out.

Malcolm Collins: So I think that like the new right should do a better job of like categorizing different types of non-normative sexual behavior in terms of like [00:22:00] acting on versus like, feeling. One, experimenting when you're young, I, I first experimenting when you're young or things you do when you're young.

When I say young, I, I don't mean just like a kid. I mean like up to like 25, let's say 23, 21, 22, 23. 23.

Simone Collins: 23. Like 20. You gotta get serious.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Anything really done before 23 or 24, I'm like full pass, like whatever. Like this guy was talking about.

Simone Collins: Well, with the caveat that with women having a lot of sexual partners can, you know, that's kind of course, but women

Malcolm Collins: make mistakes, right?

Like Yeah. And. I, I, I think if you wipe every woman out of the sexual marketplace who was sexually active before this age, you know, you can say, you, you shouldn't do this. You should know this is gonna affect how the partner values you. But in terms of the public stage, like if a conservative influencer woman, I.

It came out that she had slept with a bunch of people before that age, like before 23. Like suppose it came out that like Louis Perry [00:23:00] or or Mary Harrington or Katherine Pak had had sex with a bunch of people before 23, and this is at odds was their current like conservative persona. I'd be like, you cannot count that against them.

I, I would, I would like actively attack anybody who tried to shame their adult publicly.

Simone Collins: Yes. But, you know, men would have an issue with that, which is why with our daughters, I'd still warn them again about it. Right.

Malcolm Collins: I agree. But that's not what we're talking about. Yes. That's not

Simone Collins: what Yeah. We're talking about should you be reputationally disqualified as a conservative influencer based on your.

History sexually. Right.

Malcolm Collins: Right. If anything, I'd feel worse for them. I'd feel like everything that they had done in terms of influence was in part to try to save young girls from their position right now and they just didn't want to have that publicly associated with them.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. I,

Malcolm Collins: I, I don't think I'd have an ounce.

I, I would've an ounce of anything but rage as somebody who tried to attack them if that came out. You know, and I think that this is what I'm talking about in [00:24:00] terms of like how we categorize this, right? Yeah. Like what actually I. Assuming they disclosed it to their current partner before marrying,

Simone Collins: which is important.

Yeah. Which is

Malcolm Collins: important. Right. You know, and again, I'm not saying that any of them did. I don't, I have no reason to believe that any of them did this. No, I was just giving an example here, right? Mm-hmm. So yeah, before the age of 23, I'd say, okay, throw that out. I'd say and, and keep in mind he was here talking about this camming stuff he was doing when he was like 19 or something, or his fiance.

Oh, it was from the past. I dunno what he was.

Simone Collins: No, it sounds like he published a blog post about. His wife doing it as she was doing it,

Malcolm Collins: whatever. Well, we'll see. We'll, I, I, I can go back and try to find out how old he was when this stuff's happened.

Simone was in the right here. It was as he was doing it, which makes it extra indefensible.

Simone Collins: All right. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But in, in terms of stuff like anal play for men I see no reason why this should be shamed.

I understand it like it goes against norms. It's not like particularly dangerous. It's, it's something they can do as like a mono monogamy partner. It's also not

Simone Collins: even time consuming. [00:25:00] So, yeah. Like if it causes him to orgasm

Malcolm Collins: quicker and get the whole thing over with quicker than just do it. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Power to the, yeah, absolutely.

I, so my, my stance on this is the really big contrast in my view between the left and the right in our modern age is performative activity versus consequentialist activity, and then hedonism versus values alignment. So the way that I look at acceptable sexuality versus non-acceptable sexuality has more to do with are you putting your sexuality above the pursuit of your values?

Like, are you spending most of your time dating people and trying to get new sexual partners, or are you spending most of your time doing what it is that that's meaningful to you? How much

Malcolm Collins: are you letting your sexuality distract you from your end goal?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or like be a part of your identity when that's not.

At all related to your objective function or if your objective function is hedonism, you just shouldn't be here. You shouldn't, you don't belong here [00:26:00] on the other side.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no. I actually argue that, that Jack Murphy, if, if you look at this, he was allowing it to distract him. You know, he was no.

Simone Collins: And so that I, I, I hold all of that against him.

And also the fact that he was acting on it in a way. That logistically would've taken a lot of time, like sitting down with your girlfriend or fiance and saying, listen, I'm really into this. Listen, I want you to go out and do this. I mean, she's also taking a risk, going out and having an intimate experience with someone from Tinder, like that's not necessarily safe for a woman either.

And if, if she's doing it safely. Yeah. There's also a lot of vetting that's very time consuming. You, you, you have SDD testing, you have some, some kind of due diligence that you're hopefully doing on this. Lucky gentleman, so. Like, really? Don't you have better things to do? You really think, like, you really think,

Malcolm Collins: but, and this is, this is, this is why.

And it's funny again, like all of the stuff that I'm defending here, I would not sit on camera and defend something I actually do for fear that it comes [00:27:00] back to me. So when I'm talking about like the, the like anal simulation and stuff like that, that is not, I, I find it like the idea, the, the, like the smell.

I think

Simone Collins: both of us are too squeamish around. To handle. Like we don't, human bodies aren't our favorite thing. Yeah. Human bodies are not my thing. Like I'm I, well like butt stuff is way too human. Is way too human. That's

Malcolm Collins: always been your famous line was me, which is Malcolm. I'll do

Simone Collins: anything for you. But Anal.

Malcolm Collins: But anal. But she literally. All the time. Like it's funny that I don't think that's ever been recorded on air or anything that she this, but like within our personal relationship it's always like she'll hold my hands and be like, Malcolm, I'll do anything for you. But anal.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And for me, I'm just like, why? Why, why add that when you could just masturbate? Like that's like a gross additional step. Like, even, even,

Simone Collins: well, and I think, so my, my additional problem with anal when you have a choice, like when there are other holes available, is the amount of prep and [00:28:00] maintenance you have to do.

Yeah, let's go. I'd love to, do we have all the gear, do you think? You know, I've got my hiking shorts. Yeah, I think I have everything. Yeah, let's get the gear. Alright, hike. Yeah. What if it rains? You right. Let's get the ringer. You know.

Simone Collins: Yes. So again, when it comes to are you spending your time pursuing and maximizing your values, if you do frequent anal. You're following all these steps. But I also hold that for like, someone who spends an hour a day doing their hair and makeup. That's, that is just as valueless as someone Oh, yeah.

Or spends an hour preparing for, oh, somebody

Malcolm Collins: football games or something. You know, uhhuh like,

Simone Collins: yeah. So like, I, again, like we, it we are not sex negative. Were was hedonism wasting time.

Malcolm Collins: Negative hedonism. Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I, I agree with all that. But what I'm saying here is like, when I hear.

Like the head of the Proud Boys apparently got canceled for, for, for saying something like this. And I was like, [00:29:00] no, you shouldn't be doing that. Like, because then, you know, you don't know your own kids end up into something like this and you frame this as like this horrifying thing. And then now they're like, okay, well I guess I'm just a sexual monster, may as well great.

My sister. You know, and it's like, well,

Simone Collins: yeah, suppressing this stuff isn't good. And I think. Knowing about your arousal pathways and possibly even talking about it when it's relevant and whatnot, I have no problem with that. And people shouldn't be shamed for what turns them on and off. But.

Yeah, pursuing it, investing a lot of time into its pursuit. You should just be on the project. Well, I actually, this like

Malcolm Collins: if you're being logical puts like the new right. Strictly morally superior to the left around arousal and kinks. Well, because what we're saying is that's what every side thinks.

They're, you know, you could, you could have the kinks you want to have, so long as they don't have negative externalities in how you're applying them. And so long as you are not forcing other people to participate in them, which is what you are [00:30:00] doing when you. Dress up that way in public when you publicly blog post about something like this when you you know, like all of this is stuff that's done to involve other people in your kinks

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Without their, their

Simone Collins: consent. Yeah. And so that's why OnlyFans is different. It is opt-in. And I think that's, that's one of the really underrated great things about OnlyFans is if you have a. Humiliation, fetish. If you have a, like public exposure or fetish, all those sorts of things. Like this is the place where you can do it and make money and everyone can sense.

And I just think that's beautiful. It's wonderful. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like, oh, here's a great thing. If somebody, and I don't believe the Russian pee tapes are real, if some Russian prostitute really peed on Trump, like whatever I, I like even think was the right as it is right now. These came out, people would be like, whatever, like F off, no one

Simone Collins: cares.

Malcolm Collins: Like, I'm glad I wasn't born like that. But also

Simone Collins: like everyone knows Donald Trump would never, he's such a germ phobe, so it's not Yeah, he's, he's

Malcolm Collins: a [00:31:00] complete germophobe. He would never do that.

Simone Collins: He seems like the kind of person who would see like the tiniest stain on a carpet and be like, we need to leave this hotel right now.

You think he's gonna, he's gonna do water sports? I know. I also

Malcolm Collins: think that he's a sexual elitist like me. I, I, I would not be surprised if he has not slept with prostitutes. That he only sleeps with, like, he's, he's wrote articles about sleeping with like, not rote, but that articles written about him, about how he likes like sleeping with his friends' wives and stuff like that.

Yeah. Because they're

Simone Collins: high status women. High

Malcolm Collins: status. Yeah. I'm, I'm very, and squirmy Daniel was a

Simone Collins: high status like celebrity. So yeah. I think for him, status is hotter than. A lot of other, not status. It's

Malcolm Collins: hotter. I think low status women are disgusting to him. Oh. It's a version thing like myself. Interesting.

Yeah. Anyway, so to continue here, Murphy's own admission of the video's existence coupled with his attempt to label the redistribution as revenge porn.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. The claim

Malcolm Collins: debunked as the content was wily, publicly posted. Fueled the narrative. He locked his ex account and deleted his tweets. Furthering, escalated scrutiny.

Mm-hmm. His defensive to questions about the [00:32:00] 2015 Cook holding article, particularly lashing out lashing out. The podcast hoster the Sidney Watson is, is what caused people to get angry at him. From the perspective of manosphere letting other men have sex with your girlfriend is definitely a no-no.

And we'll earn you the ultimate put down C, which is to say cuck hold. By the way, cuck holds both in our data and other data was more common among conservatives getting cuted by your partner Yes. Than progressives. Yes. Isn't that interesting? Interesting. Murphy's defensiveness poured patrol.

Yeah. So the big problem is his defensiveness and sort of how he handled it. Now what is interesting here is his writings were criticized.

Its Smith Sandra racist and aligned with alt-right ideologies, which led to his doc. Sing in 2018. Hmm. This revelation that he was a senior manager at DC Public Charter School Board resulted in administrative leave in January, 2018.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: So apparently that's when he started leaving, leaning in to like the Jack Murphy live stuff.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: And [00:33:00] then His in 2021, his profile expanded as he became a Lincoln fellow at the Claremont Institute, a conservative think tank highlighting his influence in right-wing circles. However, December, 2021 brought significant personal revelations. He admitted to authoring in two a 2015 Cook holding article and producing amateur pornography.

So the cook holding stuff he had written when he was still like a public democrat. And he had this pseudonym that was doing right wing stuff.

Simone Collins: Interesting.

Malcolm Collins: I mean, and so it's

Simone Collins: fairly complicated.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah a a and then a, during this period, by mid 2022, Jack Murphy live ceased new episodes suggesting a withdrawal from his public role concurrently heal a large Rebel health alliance, a personalized healthcare service, focusing on optimizing longevity and metabolic health.

And it's something that is still operational and appears to be his. Mainstream source of income. So one thing I wanna look at is the stuff that got him canceled. Like how actually offensive is this guy, right? Yeah. Everyone says, oh, they're misogyny. And people say Are, we're misogynist and racist [00:34:00]

Simone Collins: uhhuh.

Malcolm Collins: So he said, if feminists need grape, it is our duty as men to save feminists from themselves. Therefore, I am offering to grape to feminist as an olive branch. Who's asking for trouble? It's asking for trouble. It's provocative, but us saying that like the, the Handmaid's Tale is leftist fantasy and that the data proves it mm-hmm.

Could be seen as analogous to that.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Fair. He said if you open her a, you open her mind. He said this is not something I'd agree. Like obviously my wife says I'm not interested in this. And I'm like, yeah, okay. Oh, I'm not interested in either. But but like I, okay another one here is big female myths.

Is that they are pure, true says they are hungry, dirty, and enthusiastic about sex. And I love. How feminists don't believe in agency. That is not an offensive statement at all. So he said like almost nothing here, wrong from [00:35:00] what I can see. Well, but

Simone Collins: also, no, I think that sweeping statement is not accurate.

That is accurate about some women. Definitely not. Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well, okay. Here's one thing that I do have a problem with. He said in one post he wrote I've had s. Sex slaves, little girls and tied them all up. Feminists seek me out to f them, like the patriarchy which the little girls sing, like I can understand it sexualized, but like, maybe you shouldn't say that publicly.

Simone Collins: Maybe not

Malcolm Collins: like, like I, like, I what I mean is I do not think that he's actually talking about little girls, but I like understand

Simone Collins: DDLL. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dlg. Yeah. Sorry.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Here he is. It says he's talked about at an esno state where he said the logistics are necessary in the course of events in which leads us towards an esno state.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: That's, that's actually something that like, I think a lot of people need to think about when you have a large. Amount of immigrants in a country and there might be an a, a desire to preserve that country in the future, like Germany or something. Okay. You gotta think about, well, what [00:36:00] happens to the immigrants that have been imported into the country?

Like, how, how does the country, if it changes its mind about this

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Handle this, like, when it realizes it may eventually go extinct. And like what we mean here is 25% of the German population. Currently came to the country after the 1950s or their, their ancestors did. Mm-hmm. They have a higher fertility rate than the mainstream German population.

Like eventually Germans will be replaced. And this isn't like a, I'm not saying like some evil person plan this out or anything like this, but that this might lead to. Ethnic tensions is obvious, and if a far right government came into place, a question of what do you do that isn't genocide is something that is worse establishing so that people don't jump to genocide.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway and, and I mentioned the other one who this had happened to, which I found was interesting is, is, is Glavin McKinneys who, who talked about butt stuff in, in straight men and, and that not being unmanly. And I'm like, well, but like this manly [00:37:00] obsession is pointless in the first place. I think that, well, that

Simone Collins: is, again, it's, it's pretty preening and performative among men as well.

And to me it screams of insecurity. So I don't, I, I really don't care like a man who's very comfortable with his sexuality. Like there's nothing more masculine. And whether this is demonstrated by a man or a woman than confidence and comfort with your sexuality and being very open about it, that's a lot of confidence and that's very masculine.

And this whole like shaming thing, there's nothing more feminine than public shaming. Absolutely. Yeah. So this whole, it's not masculine stuff is, is very, you know, it doesn't, it's not the right brand. I think it's not the brand that conservatives necessarily want to. Project not, not dunking [00:38:00] on Man's world or anything for the

Malcolm Collins: health of keeping people was in their community.

If you've created a community, you know, one thing I mentioned to a progressive reporter recently is I was like, well, you know, back when I was a progressive. There were all sorts of ideas and arguments and everything like that that I had, that I knew I needed to keep private. If I was gonna maintain my acceptance within the community

Simone Collins: and

Malcolm Collins: within the new right, I'm able to say everything I believe about the world, right?

And people will be like, well, I disagree with you here, let's have a debate. But it is friendly, you know? It's like they, they actually want to convince me They're not like, shut up. You're not allowed to say that. Right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I think that alongside arousal patterns, you know, if 75% of people have some sort of a kink, and we're talking about like 20 kinks per person on average, right?

Like if, if you create a community where on average people are supposed to, to to know. That if something came out about them or something like that, that it would, it would be a reason to like shame and, and remove their [00:39:00] platform. And the average influencer in this space feels that way. Like the average conservative influencer by the statistics has something that turns them on, that they're hiding from you.

And they would hope that they're friend did dunks or PC in water when they die. Like, the, the fact that that is the case is, i, I think not the way we should structure sexual morality was in the community

Simone Collins: 100%.

Malcolm Collins: Because it, it's gonna push people out and it's gonna limit our audience. And instead to say you know, whatever arouses you can arouse you, just don't act on it.

Don't live your life in that way and to know, yeah, don't make it

Simone Collins: your identity, and don't structure your life around it. Just like with drinking, just like with eating, just like with exercising. All like, if it is not,

Malcolm Collins: don't, don't force others to participate in it. Like, this is what trans people do.

They're basically forcing others to participate in like their arousal patterns, right? They're like, Hey, everyone needs to, you know, and you, and you could tell like, part of this is about arousal. Like, they're like, none of [00:40:00] it. No, part of it's about arousal. Like, I, I, I get it. Like, for, for some of them it.

Definitely when, when the, especially when they don't even try to pass it's like, why are you forcing them to call you by a gender that you're not even attempting to look like? Like, oh, it's because you're getting turned on by having power over them. Right. When, when you have the who is the swimming guy who you wanted to be?

I can't

Simone Collins: remember his. Leah Thomas. Leah Thomas.

Malcolm Collins: And, and we have reports that, she would go into the locker room and hadn't had surgery, wasn't on anything, you know, and had a maley

Simone Collins: was out. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like,

Malcolm Collins: Why are you, we used to call this being a flasher. Like, what are you doing? Like you can, you can do this.

If you just wanted to be seen as a woman, you wouldn't be doing this clearly. Well, you know,

Speaker 17: [00:41:00] Ah!

Malcolm Collins: like part of me just

Simone Collins: wishes we lived in the Starship Trooper's world of mixed gender restrooms and like everyone has. A male like locker room approach. I'm much more angry than

Malcolm Collins: that because if it's a mixed gender restroom, then then she, she, oh, yeah.

Then it's not special. Yeah. Yeah. It's not special. Mm-hmm. She's not forcing herself on other people and that, yeah. See, no, that's, that's the solution

Simone Collins: is you just eliminate all gender neutral bathrooms. You just eliminate all gender neutral spaces and suddenly everything's okay again.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and I also like that.

Because I think it desexualize the other sexist body, and I, I think that that's erection. We should be going Well, that's

Simone Collins: the point. I mean, in, in societies when things get arbitrarily sexualized, suddenly they are sexualized, whether it's an armpit or an ankle or whatever. And if we just don't make it a thing, guess what?

Suddenly, I mean, of course for some people, they're gonna.

Malcolm Collins: In the Muslim world, right? Like you, you get like [00:42:00] ankles and stuff like that, sexualized because they're covered up. If you just had everyone like seeing naked males and females normalize, you wouldn't sexualize the other gender much at all. You just, well, I wonder why,

Simone Collins: like, perhaps, so in Germany you get a lot more nudist colonies and resorts and stuff.

Mm-hmm. And the, the primary kinks that you see associated with Germany are BDSM. They're power dynamic based kinks. Yeah. Instead of like body. Body stuff. Like when I think of Germany and I think of X-rated material, it is always power dynamic related and not related to body parts. And yet when I think of the X-rated material associated with say, India or a lot of other regions that are much more conservative, then it's all about body parts.

And that is really interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Is that a good thing? Yeah, I think it is a good thing. I think I, I, I, I think well, because in a good thing

Simone Collins: for it not to be an obsession with body parts, but rather power dynamics.

Malcolm Collins: Well, maybe, I don't know. Like, here's the funny thing in Germany, like why is it power dynamics that are the thing?

It's because body parts are not [00:43:00] shamed. Like they see naked people all the time. Yeah. It's like

Simone Collins: germane. It's like, well, of course, like my, you know,

Malcolm Collins: lack quality is shamed in Germany because they're like so obsessively progressive. And so the idea that somebody would have power over another person is what is most,

Simone Collins: oh ha.

It's a, it's germane,

Malcolm Collins: you would say, as a as an arousal pathway.

Simone Collins: Interesting. Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, I, I, I find, yeah, this is my thoughts after I think through this is I would generally, like if I had been around when this was happening, I would say, look, the way he handled this was gross. He shouldn't have involved the public in it.

The, the way that he was defensive about this was also bad. But if you're talking about something like Gavin McKinneys, he's just like, look, you know, you shouldn't be seen as unmanly because you're, you're doing like prostate stimulation stuff. I'm like,

Simone Collins: what? Well, however, however, I think that it is important.

To separate your personal life from a professional life, even when yeah, your professional life is about your personal life. That's not true. When people are [00:44:00] influencers and it's all around their personalities, no, it's not about them as people, it's about the caricature that they've chosen to present online.

And the caricature that these men had chosen to present was of a, of that time classically conservative male, which didn't do the things that they suddenly started promoting. Mm-hmm. And it was them bringing their personal lives to work. That messed that up. And again, that is something I just wanna abide by.

We don't, we don't, we don't abide by that professionally. Don't bring your personal life into work if it doesn't help work. And they made that mistake. And so I, I, I, I still hold them responsible for it. If it came out, for example, that like their, their search history was leaked, then I would not hold them at fault.

Malcolm Collins: Hmm. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, like search history being leaked or like, who was it like, not Vosh one, one of the, one of the guys like had it. Pictures of Hint Eye. We've had, we have had Hint Eye leaked on this show, by the way. I accidentally put it on on, not accidentally, it's a joke. There were the, in [00:45:00] the, in the yak, the, the one about Yankees, the mild D Oh yeah, no, you

Simone Collins: put,

Malcolm Collins: you put the put hint tie on the show and other people are like, oh yeah, that's a great one.

I know that one. They're like, I didn't expect him to actually put it on the screen. The, oh, just for people who don't know, it's called like my childhood friend. It's broken or something. And it's a, it's a story. It's super awesome where they have a, a, like, a hint, I story about a, a ga ga, what's the word, G ya.

Guru girl, which is like when the Japanese women like do their face different colors and like, have lots of piercings and Malibu

Simone Collins: Barbie, Japanese edition

Malcolm Collins: garish outfits. And it's, it's apparently you learn. I, I, I decided to read the whole thing after putting in the episode. I was like, I gotta make sure this actually isn't like bad.

Apparently you learned. That in the past she was assaulted. And she dressed this way because she wanted to feel powerful and like reclaim a sense of power. And then she meets a childhood friend and they fall in love. And then he, he does nice things for her. And over time [00:46:00] she learns that she doesn't need to dress this way to feel like she's powerful and she becomes a mom and she has kids.

And the, the series ends. When her kid meets another kid playing in a park, and this is supposed to be a new childhood friendship that continues to cycle. Aw. Well, it's, it's, it's sad at the end actually, because they're commenting on how they, they don't know anyone who has kids their kids ages and no one's having kids anymore.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, but they're gonna be the new culture that generates. Or sorry that, that inherits Japan. So that's, yeah, all

Malcolm Collins: of the actual, like, cant I, like, not safer work scenes happen after that scene. It's, it's, that's so weird. There's this whole like, life

Simone Collins: arc that's super wholesome

Malcolm Collins: and then suddenly it becomes, well it created the wholesome like arc and in like the, the not safer work scenes are clearly supposed to happen at various parts of the life arc.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Because obviously she gets pregnant, but I just want

Simone Collins: to establish that like, these are, this is part of a wholesome. Loving relationship because that's part of the erotic experience for the reader.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. This is, this is, this is people who want the erotic [00:47:00] experience of a wholesome, loving relationship that is, yeah.

And, and you

Simone Collins: can't get that full stimulus if you don't have the backstory that proves that that's happening. 'cause it's really hard to like lay that expedition exposition out in like three frames. That's really funny. That's really funny. But I don't,

Malcolm Collins: I don't, I don't want, you know, there's like 215 panels of this.

It's like Really? Oh my, my, geez. I, but I, I want that to be when Malcolm accidentally leaked tint tie episode that he, he had the that, that, that one where everyone No, I don't, I

Simone Collins: don't think that's when it came out though, that you have in the, in the past Consum Penta, because you've talked in the past about the fact that you like, or both of us agree that in an ideal world.

No porn would depict real people.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, I'm a hundred percent for only. And you expressed then that you found

Simone Collins: real porn to be extremely disgusting. So I'm pretty sure that anyone who was actually paying attention at the time would be like. Oh, then I guess Malcolm likes head tie because like, what else are you gonna like if you [00:48:00] can't,

Malcolm Collins: but if you're who, why?

I find it disgusting. I just can't like look at a real person in, in that sort of a position. There's somebody, somebody's

Simone Collins: daughter and or son. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like this is somebody's daughter, somebody wife, somebody's, they probably have

Simone Collins: kids. This is, it's rough.

Malcolm Collins: Like, this is gross. Like this, this is a human life that we're talking about here.

Like why is this okay to get off? No, I, I think it's, it's, it's it's rough. I don't know if other people have that reaction. Like I maybe, maybe other people don't. Maybe other people are just like, no, but like in this context, it's not them, it's just a picture of them. But like for me, it's like,

Simone Collins: I don't know.

Like it's, I, I think it, I was just thinking about. You know, would I feel different if they were someone, if it was you? Like, would I feel uncomfortable? But like then if, if ever I was watching even video of like, you made something for me privately or something, I'd be like, oh, what if this leaks? I'd be so uncomfortable.

And I think I think about that a lot. When I think about the other people, I'm like, oh, like. How old are they now? Are people [00:49:00] comparing their younger body to their older body? Like, what, what, what, what if their mother sees this? And you just start thinking way too much about it, and then you start thinking about yourself.

And that's one of the reasons I think why many female audiences like. Ywe, which is man on man drawn like manga and stories. It's sometimes explicit and sometimes not because at that point you're totally taken outta the situation. Not only is it drawn, so you're not thinking about humans in general, but there are no women at all.

So you're not thinking about you as a woman. Am I pretty enough? I think that there's some, there's a big theme in many genres of erotic material. That are instead of optimized around specific arousal pathways, optimized around avoiding specific, if not discussed pathways, then anxiety pathways.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I'm exactly the same way.

What a lot of you is, is now the AI stuff has gotten good, I don't even need to worry that like a human, like, like drew it

Simone Collins: and Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Humans were involved at some point in the process. Yeah. But I don't need to think about some guy in his basement drawing this. Right?

Simone Collins: Yes, that's [00:50:00] true. That is kind of a turnoff when you think about it.

Malcolm Collins: Thanks

Simone Collins: for ruining that for me.

Malcolm Collins: But I, I also point out with all of this, you know, the, the, the reason I say all this is I'm like, okay, so what if some guy is actually like a sabi guy and he is in a relationship and his partner is into this and, and they're into like him being a sub in the bedroom. Right. You know, like Uhhuh, are we supposed to be like.

That guy can't be a good man. They can't be a good masculine man. They can't be a good dad. Like I think what we need to say is like, look, if you're a Suby guy, and this is why, because I feel bad for all of the Suby guys because there's like a lot of Suby guys out there, right? Yeah. I mean, like

Simone Collins: the numbers indicate that there are a lot of out

Malcolm Collins: there.

If you are a savvy guy, that doesn't mean that you cannot be the perfect masculine man. You can be a good dad who is there for your kids. You can be in a, a relationship with your wife that is stable and supporting and when the lights are off [00:51:00] and you're doing your own thing. That, that, that can be your own thing.

And I don't think that we as a community benefit from those guys feeling in constant. Fear that they are gonna have everybody hate them if they ever found out about that. I think that that is not a healthy thing to, and that

Simone Collins: fear leads to a lot of avoidant problematic behavior. That's like, that's why you see this problem in states where porn is like banned or deeply looked negatively upon by the predominant religion that you see much more problematic behavior.

And yeah, this is definitely something, shaming is the wrong thing to do, but not so shaming the fact that you feel it bad, but pursuing it at the cost of your productivity. Also bad. That should, that should probably, yeah. And if not shamed met with a, like the same kind of concerned reaction. [00:52:00] That you react to someone who has an eating problem or a drinking problem or some other, like a gambling problem, right?

Yeah. Like those are things like, oh, you're disgusting. You gamble, you sports gamble. You have a sports gambling app. I can't believe it. I I'm never gonna be your friend. And you can't be an influencer. No. It's like. Hey, dude, are you okay? Like this? Can this, you're, you're ruining your savings. Like you're not gonna achieve your life goals if you keep doing this.

And that is, I think

Malcolm Collins: it's such a great way to frame it, is that we should, we should focus on these sorts of sexual prohibitions in the same way we focus on like gambling prohibitions.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They're very, very serious. And they can hurt other people around them, but you need to, you need to frame them with you know, compassion in this way and be like, Hey like do you have a problem here?

Instead of, you know, one of the funniest things that everyone's like, people thought that like you weren't sexually gratifying me enough and that like they, they sent you emails about that.

Simone Collins: Yes. I've received multiple messages from people who are like, are they usually for women or men? It's been [00:53:00] both actually.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I, I can tell you that is not the case. No. Now they're

Simone Collins: gonna write to me again and be like, he's saying that this is his call for help, Simone. This is his call for help. He's calling for help right now. Understand how inefficient sex is. I understand. I don't think they understand.

Yeah, I don't think we understand that.

Like we're at the precipice, the turning point of the entire future of humanity, and that every hour that we spend doing something indulgent is an hour that we're not maybe tipping the scales in favor of human flourishing instead of extinction. Hello. People,

Malcolm Collins: timelines we're so short in terms of like what we're building and everything like that.

I just feel like. Like, do they not get that every because it, we're working on the same project together. So like, if I take Simone's time for like an hour of sex. Yeah. Like you, you only get so many hours a day. Like, it's not that we never do it, but it's, it's such a waste. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Anyway, [00:54:00] that's we'll see what they have to say next.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I dunno, I, I love it how you, for a while were like really acting weird about this with me. Like, I was like,

Simone Collins: Malcolm, whenever you want, like we're here, we can block out time.

Malcolm Collins: And I was like, Simone, 'cause

Simone Collins: y'all got in my head.

Malcolm Collins: I was like, no, you do not understand how much I appreciate the work you're doing.

Right. But whenever

Simone Collins: you want, Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: I was like, what is this worth more than the current Andreesen application? The current survival and flourishing? I know it's not, I know, but like,

Just in case

Simone Collins: this is like one of those double reverse blind. No, but it's like,

Malcolm Collins: like literally, what am I putting off for this?

We've got. Four kids that we're raising as well. Like Yeah. Of which one of 'em woke up, so I gotta gotta, all right. Love you to De Simone. I love you too. What am I doing for dinner tonight? Oh, yeah. It's a crumble.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But also, I'm gonna try something that I've never tried before, that I'm very curious about it.

I'm gonna try it too. [00:55:00] Shout out to Margaret for telling me it's possible.

Malcolm Collins: What are you gonna tell me?

Simone Collins: You will find out. What is it? If it succeeds tonight, I'm not gonna tell you.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. I'm not

Simone Collins: gonna tell you. But it is something that you and I both like and that we can't get in America.

Malcolm Collins: By the way. Oh, scotch eggs.

Simone Collins: That's what I'm

Malcolm Collins: gonna say. Ah, wait. Oh my God. But okay, so if you're gonna do scotch eggs, don't bother with frying the rice. Just do like regular rice and I'll mention the crumble. No,

Simone Collins: no, no, no. Because what if they really don't turn out? This is my first time trying

Malcolm Collins: regular rice with crumble and toy sauce will be fine.

Simone Collins: Malcolm, just let me, let me do my thing, but let me go now so I can actually prep everything. I love you. All right. Love you to death. Why? have this permanent crease in my eyebrow region, but I realize now you do too. So

Malcolm Collins: you have a what? Val region.

Simone Collins: Permanent crease. Like a little look at. Look at your furrow lines. Even when you're not furrowing, they're, they're still there. And that's the problem. Well, not the problem. It's just naturally part of [00:56:00] our aging process.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I wonder, do you have, do you have the, the smile lines yet?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Well,

Simone Collins: that's your fault. That is your fault. The furrowing is my fault. The smiling is, is your fault because you make my life too fricking awesome. And we laugh way too much.

Malcolm Collins: No matter how big your wrinkles get, I will not leave you. So don't you worry.

Okay, we'll

Simone Collins: see. We'll just see how, how big they need to get.

Malcolm Collins: No, we'll see if you stopped being able to have kids, that's where things get dicey, Jesus.

Simone Collins: Just in case anyone thought that you were being nice and charitable.