Is There a Difference Between Secularism and Secularization?

I've heard stories from people not necessarily those who went to Tuamarat but who went into intense studies in Yemen and Syrian places. They were shaken by the power of this culture, this kind of huge – the Western culture. And didn't feel that they could sustain themselves as Muslims. Have you experienced that? I think Seid Nakhibratas, who – have you met him? Seid Nakhib? In the Khib? Yes, yes.