In this episode, Joe interviews Micah Stover: certified psychedelic somatic therapist and author of the upcoming book, Healing Psychedelics: Innovative Therapies for Trauma and Transformation; and Craig Heacock, MD: adolescent, adult, and addiction psychiatrist, and host of the Back from the Abyss podcast.

Stover discusses the inspiration for the book: the ancestral voices she started hearing after she had children, being featured on Heacock’s podcast and becoming fascinated with people’s healing stories, and her move to Mexico, where she learned the beauty of a less complicated and more connected life. She learned that the village you surround yourself with is really the medicine, and that existing in the mysteries of life can be much more beneficial than trying to solve everything. Combining her Western training with more Indigenous perspectives, she wondered: Where do science and spirit meet? And how can they dance together?

They discuss:

Stover’s early days of offering medicine journeys in Mexico, and how much leaning on elders from all backgrounds matters
The importance of discernment in non-ordinary states: Is spiritual bypassing just the absence of discernment?
How finding a village can be just connecting to the earth: How much of our trauma is from a “nature deficit disorder”?
The power of transference and the relationship between therapists/facilitators and clients
The idea that modern psychology has fallen short because we’ve sterilized love out of the room, and the challenge of bringing love back as part of a safe container

and more!

The book, which is laid out somewhat like a workbook (and which Heacock wrote the foreward to) comes out on November 4 and is available for pre-order now.

For links, head to the show notes page.

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