Laura van de Kamm: I very much like to think about little approaches like that where you can every single time you go to go and do something you slot an additional bit of friction in beforehand. If you want to do something which is effortless you could make it more effortful so for example the phone after 8 p.m. isn't going to happen on my phone if I'm not out with people in the U.S. right? So there's an order to it and what I have people do is they would learn one rule and then add another one and then added another one. Laura van de Kams: Trying to adopt all nine habits at once might be a little

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