Exploring Introspection and Moral Status in AI

Earlier this year, the paper "Emergent Misalignment" made the rounds on AI x-risk social media for seemingly showing LLMs generalizing from 'misaligned' training data of insecure code to acting comically evil in response to innocuous questions. In this episode, I chat with one of the authors of that paper, Owain Evans, about that research as well as other work he's done to understand the psychology of large language models.

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Transcript: https://axrp.net/episode/2025/06/06/episode-42-owain-evans-llm-psychology.html

Topics we discuss, and timestamps:

0:00:37 Why introspection?

0:06:24 Experiments in "Looking Inward"

0:15:11 Why fine-tune for introspection?

0:22:32 Does "Looking Inward" test introspection, or something else?

0:34:14 Interpreting the results of "Looking Inward"

0:44:56 Limitations to introspection?

0:49:54 "Tell me about yourself", and its relation to other papers

1:05:45 Backdoor results

1:12:01 Emergent Misalignment

1:22:13 Why so hammy, and so infrequently evil?

1:36:31 Why emergent misalignment?

1:46:45 Emergent misalignment and other types of misalignment

1:53:57 Is emergent misalignment good news?

2:00:01 Follow-up work to "Emergent Misalignment"

2:03:10 Reception of "Emergent Misalignment" vs other papers

2:07:43 Evil numbers

2:12:20 Following Owain's research

Links for Owain:

Truthful AI: https://www.truthfulai.org

Owain's website: https://owainevans.github.io/

Owain's twitter/X account: https://twitter.com/OwainEvans_UK

Research we discuss:

Looking Inward: Language Models Can Learn About Themselves by Introspection: https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.13787

Tell me about yourself: LLMs are aware of their learned behaviors: https://arxiv.org/abs/2501.11120

Connecting the Dots: LLMs can Infer and Verbalize Latent Structure from Disparate Training Data: https://arxiv.org/abs/2406.14546

Emergent Misalignment: Narrow fine-tuning can produce broadly misaligned LLMs: https://arxiv.org/abs/2502.17424

X/Twitter thread of GPT-4.1 emergent misalignment results: https://x.com/OwainEvans_UK/status/1912701650051190852

Taken out of context: On measuring situational awareness in LLMs: https://arxiv.org/abs/2309.00667

Episode art by Hamish Doodles: hamishdoodles.com