Welcome to episode 59 of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach and journalist Jo Confino discuss conflicts in our world. They focus on the war in the Middle East, through the prism of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings, which remain so relevant in the current moment. 

Exploring Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings in relation to conflict, pain, and the path to peace, the presenters investigate ways to not take sides during a conflict, and how Thay managed this during the Vietnam War; deep listening, holding space, and transforming the conflict in us; keeping communities together; cultivating nondiscrimination; walking the path of love and understanding in times of war; and gratitude. 

Brother Phap Huu further shares around Thay’s legacy of dealing with conflict and the joint retreats he organized for Palestinians and Israelis in Plum Village; ways to show love for humanity; right action and enabling healing in the present moment; the importance of small acts of kindness; our own true presence of peace and nondiscrimination. 

Jo also opens up about what it feels like to go through a “period of deconstruction”; being the child of refugees and the deep connection this can create to generational trauma; dealing with the tensions created in organizations by global conflicts; and fear, and how to not be consumed by despair, but, instead, how to feel it in order to transform it.

The episode ends with offerings of gratitude and a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu. 

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Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/ 

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

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List of resources 

A Cloud Never Dies
https://plumvillage.org/a-cloud-never-dies

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing 

Peace Begins Here
https://www.parallax.org/product/peace-begins-here/ 

Calming the Fearful Mind
https://www.parallax.org/product/calming-the-fearful-mind-a-zen-response-to-terrorism/ 

Love in Action
https://www.parallax.org/product/love-in-action/ 

Peace Is Every Step
https://www.parallax.org/product/peace-is-every-step/

The Way Out Is In: ‘War and Peace (Episode #24)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/war-and-peace-episode-24

Dharma Talks: ‘Right View: Understanding the Roots of Our True Happiness’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/right-view-understanding-the-roots-of-our-true-happiness

Rains Retreat
https://plumvillage.org/retreats/info/rains-retreat-2023 

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Quotes

“Thay went through the Vietnam War, or as it is known in Vietnam, the American War, and was constantly under pressure to take sides. And he refused to take sides and advocated for peace, knowing that violence does not end violence, that war does not end war, that killing does not end killing, and that all it creates is generational trauma.”

“Thay’s foundation of action was peace, and his foundation of action came from true love and deep mindfulness. To be aware of the suffering, to listen to the suffering, and to look deeply at the suffering will be the way out of the suffering.” 

“What you can offer is your true presence of peace, your true presence of nondiscrimination, and your true presence of courage to show up where it is needed.” 

“Thay did not take sides; he took nonviolence as the path and peace as the path. So the voice that we speak, that we use, the actions of body, speech, and mind, is to generate and cultivate peace inside, to bring peace around us.”

“Thay always spoke about cultivating inner peace in order to touch true love inside, because love reminds us of our human nature, of our humanity. If there is love in us, there is love in others. If there is suffering in us, there is suffering in others. So these practices are to go deeper, to see the interbeing nature of all that is happening in the here and now.”

“When somebody kills somebody, they are also killing themself. They’re killing a part of humanity.”

“Thay said, ‘If you ask me what we want in Vietnam, we want the bombing to stop. We want the fighting to stop, the killing to stop, because only when we get it to stop can we start to listen deeply, to listen to the suffering that is happening and not be carried away by views and ideology that are probably not even true, that are probably based on greed and fear.’” 

“We have learned that the quality of our actions really matter. If we want a world of care, then love and compassion has to be the fabric of every moment. What we do every day is of cosmic importance.” 

“We need to make room for more than one truth.”

“Stop the killing. Stop the bombing. Cease fire. I think that these are the main messages and calls for action that I am seeing across the world right now in protests. And this happened also during the Vietnam War. And this is also a way of showing love for humanity. And I feel that if we are taking actions to stop the killing, to stop the bombing, to cease fire, that is the course of right action. Like Thay said, ‘As a monk, I am not to go down the path of being a politician. But where there is suffering, I need to shine my light.’”

“Sometimes, it’s powerful just to breathe together and acknowledge we’re all going through something.”

“If we are to walk the path of peace, the peace has to be cultivated inside. So the way we show up has to be the peace.”

“Anger is not a bad thing. Anger is a bell of mindfulness, a feeling that we experience. But we need to invite peace to hold and embrace anger. Because if we walk with anger, that can lead to destruction. But anger is like a bell of mindfulness that tells us that this is not right, this is injustice. But we also have many other emotions and feelings that are more wholesome, which lead down the path of peace. So we have to invite those energies up to accompany anger and not let it be alone. And so the walk is also peace itself.”

“I remember Thay saying that he would walk so slowly that he created traffic jams in the march, but he was so committed to that because that was his voice. This is what peace is. It’s to be the peace, the transformation inside.” 

“I have a lot of gratitude, because it’s the most important thing in times of pain or suffering or despair to have a light to see in that darkness.”

“Not all the darkness in the world can put out the light of a single candle.”

“People don’t dare to listen. That is the problem. They don’t have the capacity and the courage to transform their own suffering, to truly look at the discrimination that is present inside of them. And that’s why meditation is so scary, for some, because you are learning to look at yourself and to really accept yourself. Acceptance is the first path of transformation. Once you accept that, there’s transformation already in action.” 

“There is a transmission through actions of kindness, of love and care, that we may not see the fruit of right away. And the fruit of it, for Thay, which he transmitted to us, was that every action counts and not to feel powerless. But every action that we can generate to offer to our loved ones, our community, our nation, the world, starts with each breath, each smile, each loving thought, each prayer, understanding, courage to hold, courage to speak, courage to shine the light. Where there is ignorance, you have to shine the light.”

“Once the deep listening and loving speech happens on both sides, the heart starts to connect and the heart starts to open. Once the heart starts to open, once the heart connects, we have a bridge of communication. And therefore reconciliation is already happening, just by listening.” 

“What can I do? What I have to do in my current state is to transform the seed of discrimination in me, to transform the fear and the violence inside of me. That is my responsibility.”

“Even if you only have five minutes, that five minutes is for you to cultivate peace so that it contributes to the peace of the world. And if you live for ten years, it is your responsibility to cultivate peace for those ten years so that it starts to transmit that culture into our way of being. And however many years you have, that is your responsibility. That is your practice: transforming war, the wars that have not yet broken out.”