Exploring the Hitchhiker Effect and Mystical Technologies

U.F.O.s, fairies and abductions! This week, Ross talks to Diana Walsh Pasulka, a professor of religious studies, about how a deep dive into Catholic archives led her down a path to unravel the connections between religion, extraterrestrial encounters and government secrecy.

• 01:53 - How Pasulka’s religious studies led to the U.F.O. debate
• 06:08 - Modern U.F.O. encounters and telepathic communication
• 13:29 - What are the actual beliefs of the U.F.O. community?
• 19:28 - Whistleblowers and government contradictions
• 31:35 - Angels, demons and “actual things in the sky”
• 45:38 - Disclosure
• 52:51 - “Amazing.”

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

Thoughts? Email us at interestingtimes@nytimes.com. Please subscribe to our YouTube Channel, Interesting Times with Ross Douthat.

Unlock full access to New York Times podcasts and explore everything from politics to pop culture. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.