Navigating Value in Creative Writing

How do you turn a big-budget TV show idea into an audio drama you can produce yourself? What does it take to create a 10-hour, 30-actor historical drama? And how can guerrilla marketing in airport bookstores help find your audience? Alison Haselden shares her experience of writing and directing Wicked Dames.

In the intro, David Whyte on deeper writing [How I Write]; Midlife and the Great Unknown – David Whyte; How can I do my creative work when I’m so worried about the world? [Orna Ross]; Successful Self-Publishing Fourth Edition ebook on special; The Simple Path to Wealth 2025 Edition by JL Collins; Reshuffle: Who Wins When AI Restacks the Knowledge Economy by Sangeet Paul Choudary; The Buried and the Drowned Short Story Collection; Touching History: The Ancient Craft Of Stonemasonry [Books And Travel].

This podcast is sponsored by Kobo Writing Life, which helps authors self-publish and reach readers in global markets through the Kobo eco-system. You can also subscribe to the Kobo Writing Life podcast for interviews with successful indie authors.

This show is also supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn 

Alison Haselden is an author, screenwriter, and actor. Her latest project is the historical fiction audio drama, Wicked Dames.

You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. 

Show Notes

• From child actor to a “portfolio career” as an author, screenwriter, and actor
• Choosing an audio drama format to create an immersive experience
• How to produce an audio drama series on a budget
• Marketing vs monetization—project visibility as the goal
• Utilizing guerrilla marketing tactics to find new listeners
• Who are the Wicked Dames?

You can find Alison at AlisonHaselden.com.

Transcript of Interview with Alison Haselden

Joanna: Alison Haselden is an author, screenwriter, and actor. Her latest project is the historical fiction audio drama, Wicked Dames. Welcome to the show, Alison.

Alison: Thank you so much for having me, Jo.

Joanna: I'm excited to talk to you today. First off—

Tell us a bit more about you and your creative background.

Alison: I have been in the creative world since the day I was born. I'm so grateful to have had a very supportive family who realized they had no choice; I was going to be singing, dancing, acting, and putting on plays in the neighborhood whether they wanted me to or not.

I grew up in Orlando, Florida, which has always had a bit of a pipeline to Los Angeles. In the nineties, we had all the boy bands and the Musketeers, so there was a lot of opportunity there.

I started working in professional acting at age six and was fortunate to be able to work and train throughout my childhood in Orlando, and I was able to go to Los Angeles a bit as well.

I was also an avid reader and writer my entire life. I just love stories in every medium I could get my hands on, which has continued into my adult life. I went to university for journalism and marketing, which really honed my writing skills.

Coming out of university, I worked in content marketing for seven years. That helped me get my reps in for building writing stamina, as well as learning marketing skills that now help me so much in my acting and writing careers.

It's been a beautiful journey. I'm at a place this year where I can look back and see that —

In the years I thought I was treading water, I was actually building useful skills —

that I'm so grateful for now, even though they felt like detours at the time.

Now, I've quit the corporate world and I work for myself, marketing consulting for creative executives keeps the lights on while I pursue my acting and writing careers.

I act primarily in film and TV now. I just wrapped on my first series regular role in a limited series that should hopefully be coming out at the end of this year or in 2026. We released Wicked Dames in the fall of 2024, and I just finished writing my YA Fantasy. So, we've got a lot of projects going on.

Joanna: I love that. I love how you outlined that you also did jobs that maybe felt like you were treading water, but you were building on the side. I think some people think that you just go from child actor to TV shows to multimillionaire.

Alison: That is a common misconception.

Most of us are what I call “middle-class actors.”

Joanna: Like mid-list authors.

Alison: Exactly. It's the same thing.

Most folks that I work with, we all have something else going on on the side because this career is so inconsistent, and it's the same with writing. We all have to have multiple irons in the fire these days.

Joanna: On that, because you are juggling freelance work as well, with all these different projects and interests—

How do you manage your time with a portfolio career?

Alison: I used to be a “white-knuckle-it” kind of person and would hyper-schedule myself to try and pack every minute of every day with a box to check off. In the past two years, I have shifted away from that, and it's weirdly worked out better than I could have ever imagined. There's some kind of divine intervention there, I think.

Somehow, I rarely have competing deadlines and I follow my intuition in terms of what my priorities should be. If I have a deadline on something, of course, that gets put to the top of the pile, but I've been so fortunate that it's just worked out.

For example, this past year I was focusing solely on Wicked Dames from about April 2024 through the beginning of November 2024. Then I took a little break and an idea came to me, and I put my head down and wrote this whole YA fantasy I'm working on about witches in Nantucket.

Right when I finished that and needed a little break, this TV show opportunity came along. I couldn't really write while I was on set—it’s pretty demanding of your brain space—but it worked out because I needed to have time away before coming back for edits.

The less I try to control things, the more it weirdly works out in a way that is supportive of my creative process. There are so many different sides of our brain. I can't just be creatively brainstorming 24/7; I need to switch to the other side of my brain and do more logistical things.

For the way my energy works, being able to switch hats helps me recharge in the process, so I'm not over-functioning in one way for too long. Then I'm actually excited to go back and check in on another project.

Joanna: It sounds like you never do the same thing back-to-back; you're switching all the time.

Alison: Yes, and that part has been pure chance. I don't know how that's worked out so far, and maybe it won't be that way forever, but I really have been lucky enough to have quite a bit of variety that cycles through the year.

Joanna: Let's get into Wicked Dames. You mentioned the YA fantasy, but Wicked Dames is a historical story.

Why write Wicked Dames? And why make it an audio drama instead of a book?

Alison: One of the unique things about my background is that I don't sit down and say, “Okay, I want to write a film script,” or, “Okay, I want to write a novel.” My ideas download into my brain, and I know immediately what format I want to lead with. I do write almost everything in multiple forms of IP.

I'm working on two different books right now, and I'll probably write a pilot episode or a spec sheet for each of those, but both came to me as a novel first.

Wicked Dames, however, came to me and I saw it as a TV show. I saw the visuals of it so clearly; it just felt like a TV show. I have written the book version of Wicked Dames, but my intuition really wanted me to get it out there in as close to a TV format as possible.

Anyone who knows about film and TV knows that historical fiction is very expensive to make. So, rather than try to scrounge together an opportunity to make it as a pilot episode, I wanted to get the IP out there as soon as possible, but I wanted it to feel very experiential.

I wanted the audience to feel like they were really in that world, and an audio drama was the perfect solution. Unlike an audiobook, which is typically one voice reading the book verbatim, an audio drama is essentially a TV show without the visuals.

You get a more immersive experience with all the different actors playing the characters, plus music and sound effects. It seemed like the right medium to get the story out into the world, and I'm so glad I did it that way.

I write a lot of historical fiction, fantasy, and some contemporary rom-com. Those might sound very different, but to me, they all have an element of magic to them, which is the throughline.

I've always loved historical fiction; it's so magical. It's an escape, but also so grounding because we know that parts of it are real. It just all flowed in that way.

Joanna: In terms of writing one, people might be able to picture a TV script with camera directions and dialogue.

How do you format an audio drama script and add in things like sound effects?

Alison: Many people want to have strict rules, but really, there are no rules. I think there are even fewer rules for an audio drama script. I write it like a cross between a novel and a TV script.

The formatting on the page is structured like a TV script, so it doesn't read like a novel with paragraphs of text. We have the character breakdowns, the action, and the header that outlines the setting.

I do add a lot more to the action and description sections than I would for a traditional film or TV script. In this story, the narrator is doing a lot, so I wanted there to be plenty of description.

On my edit passes for Wicked Dames, I was thinking from the audience's perspective: if they are only listening with no visuals, what can be communicated via a sound effect and what cannot? That's where I would decide what kind of narration to add.

I didn't nitpick those details until the second or third editing pass. That really helped because you're going from being a storyteller to being more of a strategist, ensuring that your listeners have the best experience possible.

Joanna: Of course, you were both acting in and producing this.

Alison: Yes, I wore a lot of hats on this. I wrote it, I directed it, and I am a voice actor in it.

It was a lot, but I felt uniquely qualified to step into those roles. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that to all authors, unless you have a desire to learn some of those things.

For me, I really wanted the opportunity to flex those skills. One day I would love to be a showrunner of a TV show, and this was a good training ground for that.

Joanna: Let's get into the challenges of doing an audio drama compared to, say, an audiobook, especially as an independent creator without big studio funding.

Alison: I'm going to share all my secrets. I don't think I would've had the confidence to do something like this if I didn't know about some of these tools and opportunities.

One of the biggest barriers to entry people imagine is finding actors, but the beautiful thing is that there are actors at all levels out there.

It's been a difficult time in the entertainment industry following COVID and the writer and actor strikes in 2023. Our industry is still struggling to recover, so there are more actors than you'd think who are passionate about the work and looking for projects. It is very possible to find incredible actors who will work within your budget.

The best places to find actors are sites like Actors Access or Backstage.

You have to do a little admin to get your account set up to post a casting call, but I cast all my actors through there. You can be transparent about your budget, set up the audition sides from your script, and then review everyone's profiles and submissions.

It seems like a lot, but I promise it's easier than you might think. There's a little nuance here. In the United States, I ran my project through the actors' union, SAG-AFTRA, because I wanted access to a wider net of actors.

You don't have to do this; you could do it as completely non-union, but then only non-union actors can be part of your project, which is totally fine. Those websites are open to both union and non-union projects.

This is where people get nervous—the technology. You have a few options to consider before casting. You could note in your casting call that you're only considering actors who already have recording equipment.

Or, you could make it open to all actors, but you would probably have to accommodate recording them, either by paying for their studio time or inviting them to a home studio.

Many actors who do voiceover work have microphones in their homes and can work with you over Zoom and send you the files. That is probably the easiest way.

I would say the biggest challenge for me, and the part I was least familiar with, was hiring an editor. The editing is everything, especially if you have a large cast and want lots of sound effects. The editor puts all of that together.

I would recommend saving up a decent amount of your budget for that because they put in a lot of hours. That's the part that takes the most time, the most budget, and the most back-and-forth to get the final product you envision.

Joanna: Give people an idea of the money, tell us how long the Wicked Dames series is and the scale of the production.

Alison: We have 10 episodes in Wicked Dames, and they all range between 35 to 60 minutes. So, it's about 10 hours of content. We had over 30 actors participate, all with different-sized roles.

I paid my talent hourly—$25 an hour—or sometimes per session, depending on how much work they were doing. I was super upfront that I did not have a big budget. I paid my editor $3,500, which was a good deal because he was looking for the experience for his portfolio. I got really lucky.

I was putting in a lot of my own effort, so I was saving a lot of money but putting in the hours myself. I was able to produce the audio drama for under $6,000, which is very much on the lower side.

I was directing, coordinating talent, and had a tight recording schedule. I recorded every single day for the entire month of June last year.

I found a group of actors who were really excited about the project and deepening their own artistry. It was a slow season, so everyone had extra free time.

All the people who were part of the project were really meant to be part of it, and they brought so much life and fun. Seeing how they brought their own take on the characters I wrote was a joy.

Joanna: How do you distribute an audio drama and how do you make money from it?

Alison: There are a lot of routes with this, and it depends on your goals.

For me, my main goal was to get my IP out there and have a strong portfolio piece showcasing my work as a writer, actor, and director all in one. I wanted to hopefully break even and then start to build a community around my project.

I'm happy to say I was able to break even, and we've built a lot of community. My TikTok grew exponentially to 24,000 followers.

I'm in this for the long haul, and with the end goal of one day making this a TV show, it was more important for me to get the IP out there than to turn this particular audio drama into a business. Because of that, I chose to release it for free.

I have donation links in the show notes for those who enjoy it. However, you could put up a paywall through platforms like Patreon or Substack. That would probably have made more money but would have lowered the visibility, and I wanted visibility more than a short-term financial gain. You can also try to get ads on it.

One of the ways I built community was by hosting several in-person, themed events with local coffee shops and bars, which allowed for profit-share opportunities. That worked well to not only bring in a little money, but also to build fans around what we were doing.

Joanna: You said you broke even. Was that from donations and events?

Alison: Yes, it was from the donations. People were loving the show, making it all the way through, and then they would send us a tip if they enjoyed it, and it was through those events. It was very unexpected and heartwarming to see that people enjoyed what they were listening to and wanted to donate to our production.

Joanna: What platform are you publishing on?

Alison: It's the same as any other podcast. I just used the Spotify for Podcasters platform. It's cross-posted, so it's on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, iHeartRadio, and YouTube. It's accessible for free on all of those platforms.

I also have my own webpage for it with additional content. We filmed a video trailer, which was fun. There's a bit of a mystery in the story, so on the website, you can get some of the materials that the girls discover to put together the clues. I like making things interactive where I can.

Joanna: Now you've started— You better tell us more about the actual story.

Who are the Wicked Dames?

Alison: Wicked Dames is about young women who seduced and killed Nazis during World War II. I was inspired by the very real stories of many young girls and women who did this—some as young as 13 years old. Some worked alone, some with local resistance groups, and some with official intelligence agencies.

I had read these stories over the years and thought it was crazy that no one had done anything with them. We have so many World War II stories, but most are about men in primary combat.

At the same time, my fiancé's grandmother was a Holocaust survivor, and her mother did incredible things to keep her family alive. I was hearing those stories, and I think they combined in my head and spit out Wicked Dames.

I wanted to explore the shades of gray. For young women in Berlin during this time, there were many different nuances to their experiences. Each of our girls comes from a different background and has personal challenges that lead them to work together.

We also have a bit of a serial killer moment; one of the girls in the group is a serial killer who is just benefiting from being alive during this time of war. I always thought,

“When would be the best time to be a serial killer?” Probably during a world war.

She's mixed in with girls who are quite innocent and trying to do what's right, and others who have their own vendettas.

There are a lot of layers, a lot of mystery, and I think it's a pretty fun ride. I like to say it's a cross between Little Women and Peaky Blinders, with a dash of Inglourious Basterds.

Joanna: You come from a marketing background.

How are you marketing the audio drama?

Alison: I definitely like to use a mix of tactics; I am not a “put all your eggs in one basket” kind of gal.

Digitally, we have the website, an email list, and social media promotion on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Threads. We had those in-person events and partnered with podcasts and other media outlets.

My favorite thing that I did was a bit of guerrilla marketing. I ordered a bunch of bookmarks with QR codes and wrote handwritten secret notes on antique-looking paper. I travel a lot, and so do people in my family, so I distributed those amongst everyone.

Anytime we went to the airport, we were stuffing these in airport bookstore books, trying to pick relevant ones like other historical fiction or World War II texts. I would also go to my local libraries and do that.

It's a delightful surprise if you pick up a book and there's a secret note inside. I would frame it as, “You've been recruited by the Wicked Dames. Learn more and check out the website.” It was really fun to track the QR codes and see where in the world the bookmarks ended up.

Joanna: That sounds amazing. Even if it didn't pay off in click-throughs.

Alison: And it made for really great social media content. People online thought the idea was cool, so the posts I made about doing that got a lot of engagement and traffic. It's all connected.

Joanna: You started by saying you want this to be a TV show.

What happens next? Are you pitching it as a TV show?

Alison: I am so intuitively led now. I sat and brainstormed about the next steps, and what came to me was to write more.

Historical fiction is a difficult sell, especially right now. This IP is going to sit out there and hopefully continue to build community, and maybe it will come across the desk of someone who is excited by it.

Right now, I'm focusing on getting my foothold in through some of my other projects that I think would have an easier time getting a green light, like a contemporary rom-com or fantasy. Fantasy, even though it's big budget, is a more popular sell these days. I'm focusing on those projects.

My YA fantasy is completed and in edits, and I'm about halfway done with the first draft of my rom-com. I'm actually already talking with one network about that project, and I'm not even done with it.

If I hadn't listened to my intuition and had just continued pouring all my energy into Wicked Dames, I wouldn't have been able to make headway on these other projects, which I think will open up more opportunities and get me to a place where I can say, “Oh, and by the way, I have Wicked Dames here.”

In publishing, they often tell you to focus on one genre. However —

Straddling both the publishing and entertainment worlds, I've noticed it's beneficial to have a few different genres.

Having options helps when adjusting your sales strategy with the industry's ebb and flow. Sometimes they want something low-budget, and other times, during an abundance period, you can pitch your high-budget projects. I've let myself dabble for that reason.

In an industry that's so flaky, nothing's guaranteed until it's on the screen or the book is in your hands. I've taken that as permission to do whatever I want.

Joanna: Some people get disheartened by that and feel like giving up. How do you deal with that?

Alison: I certainly do get disheartened, but one of the blessings of having grown up working in this world is that I realize how impersonal it is. That can sting, but it's also freedom.

Timing is everything. It's easy to think that if something we love doesn't take off when we want it to, it's never going to work out. And yet, there's so much evidence of the opposite—projects started 10 years ago that suddenly find the right time and all the pieces fall into place.

I've seen too much evidence of that, and that's what I turn to when I'm having a hard day. I look at those stories from other artists, and that gives me hope. I've never been a competitive person, except with myself. I believe that seeing other people's success and their journeys is proof of what is possible for us.

Also, like I've said this whole time, I allow myself to indulge in what genuinely lights me up creatively. I'm always happier with that work, and people always like that work better too.

On the days I'm feeling down, I remind myself that I genuinely delight in the work. It's the business side of it that's the sucky part. So, I let myself go back into my creative cave, and that's where I recharge.

Joanna: That's super encouraging.

Where can people find you and Wicked Dames and everything you do online?

Alison: All of the updates on the multifaceted aspects of my career are on my website, AlisonHaselden.com. I'm also pretty active on social media—Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Threads—under my name, Alison Haselden.

I also have a fun new series on YouTube called “The Showrunner Note,” where I walk through my pitch for adapting popular books into TV shows or films. If you are a fellow book and media lover, that might be something fun. I would love to connect.

Joanna: Well, thank you so much for your time, Alison. That was great.

Alison: Thank you so much for having me.

The post Writing And Directing Audio Drama And The Constant Creator Mindset With Alison Haselden first appeared on The Creative Penn.