Outro

The 22-year-old rage-pop phenom and his father John Herndon, of the post-rock band Tortoise, chatted with Popcast about songwriting, nepotism and what they’ve taught each other. Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.