The Malone Interview - Is That a Good Idea?

One of the biggest problems with talking about something as vast and impactful as the pandemic is to find the right level of analysis. In this epic piece, we look at the deeper religious and theological forces playing out below the surface of our day to day conflicts over topics like vaccines, authoritarianism and safety.

We pull apart the hidden religiosity of "both sides" of the pandemic, that seems to be accelerating, even as the rapid spread of the Omicron variant brings us towards the pandemic endgame.

It features interviews with the cognitive scientist John Vervaeke, Unherd writer Mary Harrington, the author Paul Kingsnorth, emergency doctor Rocky Jedick and many more.

We have recently launched the Rebel Wisdom Substack for all our written content, and to host exclusive videos for members (just $5). The full length conversations with John, Mary & Rocky are available there for subscribers: https://substack.com/rebelwisdom 

We are running our groundbreaking Sensemaking 101 course again in February, check the website for more details: https://rebelwisdom.co.uk/courses/sensemaking-101-page 

Pieces referenced in the film include:

Joe Rogan with Peter McCullough: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0aZte37vtFTkYT7b0b04Qz?si=1f7ce5a6705b463e 

Joe Rogan with Robert Malone: https://open.spotify.com/episode/3SCsueX2bZdbEzRtKOCEyT?si=5a8207578958440e 

Breaking the Polarity Spell of the Covidiots and Covidians, Peter Limberg: https://thestoa.substack.com/p/breaking-the-polarity-spell-of-the 

Vaccine purity has infected the West, Mary Harrington: https://unherd.com/2022/01/vaccine-purity-has-infected-the-west/ 

This Vaccine Moment, Paul Kingsnorth: https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/the-vaccine-moment-part-one 

Paul Kingsnorth: Why I changed sides in the vaccine wars: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_uAwsVn10Y 

Covid & the Sensemaking Crisis, BJ Campbell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IjW16FCpkA 

Covid could still save Boris, Freddie Sayers: https://unherd.com/2022/01/covid-could-still-save-boris/ 

The Age of Breach, Alexander Beiner: https://medium.com/rebel-wisdom/the-age-of-breach-gamestop-wokeism-and-the-capitol-8e3ac46efaf9 

Tortoise, Pfizer's War: https://www.tortoisemedia.com/audio/pfizers-war/ 

Robert Malone goes full anti-science on Joe Rogan's podcast, Debunk the Funk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjszVOfG_wo&t=1s 

Robert Malone & Peter McCullough: A litany of untruths, Decoding the Gurus: https://decoding-the-gurus.captivate.fm/episode/robert-malone-peter-mccullough-a-litany-of-untruths 

No, Ivermectin Did Not Help Japan Bring Down Covid-19 Coronavirus Delta Surge, Forbes: https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/11/27/no-ivermectin-did-not-help-japan-bring-down-covid-19-coronavirus-delta-surge/?sh=717ea5842938 

Ivermectin Didn’t Save Uttar Pradesh From Covid-19, Gideon M-K: https://gidmk.medium.com/ivermectin-didnt-save-uttar-pradesh-from-covid-19-17684f49d8b3 

Walking the Talk on Free Speech? With Triggernometry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdGUp0y-bzc&t=1472s 

Episode Overview: 

00:00:00 Intro

00:00:50 The return of religion and the 'post secular'

00:04:55 The Covid Thesis vs Covid Antithesis

00:05:43 The Religiosity of the Thesis Narrative

00:08:39 The Religiosity of the Antithesis Narrative

00:14:25 Covid Synthesis?

00:16:47 What makes us intelligent leads to self-deception

00:20:24 We're all biased 

00:24:48 Mary Harrington, vaccine purity codes & theology

00:33:44 The scapegoat dynamic

00:37:45 Religion, Egregores & 'Mass Formation'

00:44:53 John Vervaeke, suspicion is eating itself

00:48:45 Dialogos & the 'hermeneutics of beauty'

00:56:50 'Pfizer are shitbags'

00:58:53 Responsible heterodoxy vs conspiracy thinking

01:01:25 Making sense of Robert Malone's claims

01:10:44 An ER doctor evaluates Robert Malone, Rocky Jedick MD

01:20:00 Understanding the red flags

01:27:14 Our broken information landscape

01:32:07 Understanding motivation vs ad hominem

01:35:42 Epistemic humility & holding perspectives

01:43:44 The 'uncanny valley' of truth seeking

01:51:00 The incentive landscape for the antithesis, Paul Kingsnorth

01:57:49 The ethics of alternative media

02:06:23 Truth as a sacred value