Navigating Economic Data Challenges

Chuck Todd opens with critical media industry news as Nexstar's acquisition of Tegna threatens to devastate local TV journalism through consolidation that will create duopolies and slash newsroom jobs while fundamentally altering how Americans receive local information at the worst possible moment for democratic accountability. He shifts to Trump's complex role as a self-perceived "mediator" rather than Western ally in Ukraine negotiations where his deliberate inaction has inadvertently forced Europe to take security more seriously while Putin's biggest strategic miscalculation remains never giving Trump a political win that could justify backing off. 

Then, he offers an analysis of how American political strategy has become deliberately divisive through sophisticated microtargeting technologies. He explains that Obama's 2012 victory was misinterpreted and incorrectly assumed identity politics would define future elections when class divisions have actually become the primary fault line in American life.  He argues that the American public still responds positively to authentic unity messaging—suggesting the current toxic political environment is more a product of deliberate strategic choices than inevitable differences and could be reversed by leaders willing to reject a divisive playbook.

Moody's Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi joins Chuck with a stark warning: the U.S. economy is heading toward a recession largely of its own making, driven by Trump's tariff policies, immigration crackdowns, and federal spending cuts that are creating a perfect storm of economic headwinds. Zandi explains that while tariff impacts are just beginning to surface as companies burn through pre-tariff inventory, the real damage will come from unfilled jobs due to deportations, AI displacing professional services workers, and federal layoffs hitting employment just as troubling indicators emerge—from empty Vegas casinos reminiscent of the 2008 financial crisis to homebuilder sentiment at its lowest levels since COVID. The economist argues that Trump's potential corruption of Bureau of Labor Statistics data makes forecasting nearly impossible at the exact moment when reliable economic intelligence is most crucial for navigating mounting risks.

The conversation reveals how global economic interconnectedness makes America's policy mistakes everyone's problem, with Zandi warning that U.S. recession would likely trigger worldwide downturn while protectionist policies reverse decades of beneficial globalization—pointing to Brexit's GDP damage as a cautionary tale. He explains why the Federal Reserve faces impossible choices between supporting growth and fighting inflation, while businesses turn to shrinkflation rather than price increases and courts may ultimately strip Trump of tariff powers. Looking ahead to spring 2026, Zandi sees persistent inflation, unfilled jobs, and productivity gains from AI investment that won't materialize quickly enough to offset immediate economic damage, all while massive national debt creates long-term fiscal pressures that could force a reckoning sooner than anticipated—making this recession uniquely self-inflicted through deliberate policy choices rather than external shocks.

Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment. 

Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Introduction

01:00 Housekeeping note - Will release 3 different versions of audio pod

03:00 Nexstar buys Tegna, will consolidate and devastate local TV news 

05:15 Merger will create local duopolies for TV affiliates, fewer journalists

07:30 Merger will have drastic effects on how people get local information

08:30 Trump holds court with Zelenskyy and European leaders

09:45 Trump sees himself as a mediator rather than ally of the west

11:00 Trump’s inaction has forced Europe to take security more seriously

12:45 Can’t sell American public on putting U.S. troops in Ukraine

15:30 Putin’s miscalculation is never giving Trump a win

18:15 If Trump exerted leverage, Putin would back off

21:15 Putin has united Europe

22:15 American political strategy is deliberately divisive & polarizing

23:15 Campaigns used to treat undecideds as moderates

24:30 Campaigns discovered independents had a wide range of views

25:15 Digital tools allowed for microtargeting of voters

26:45 Obama’s reelection win was misinterpreted

29:00 Both parties thought identity would define politics when it was class

30:15 Class is the dividing line in American life

32:00 The public does respond to authentic unity messaging

34:45 Mark Zandi joins the Chuck ToddCast 

35:30 Tariff impacts starting to show up in the economy 

37:15 Surprising the impacts haven't been more stark? 

38:30 Companies haven't gone through all pre-tariff inventory 

39:15 Are there conditions for an interest rate cut? 

40:30 Fed will weigh growth over inflation 

42:30 Federal layoffs and funding cuts impact on employment 

44:00 Major trouble for the jobs market on the horizon 

45:15 Immigration policy will leave jobs unfilled 

46:15 AI is impacting professional service jobs 

48:45 Vegas is empty, similar to before the financial crisis 

49:45 Indicators of brewing economic trouble? 

51:45 Homebuilder sentiment the lowest since Covid 

52:30 If we don't dip into recession, what prevents it? 

54:30 What will the economy look like in the spring of 2026? 

57:15 Will tariff increases lead to persistently high inflation? 

58:45 Businesses are choosing shrinkflation over price increases 

1:01:15 Courts could take tariff power away from Trump 

1:02:45 Is there hidden productivity in the data due to AI? 

1:05:15 AI will boost productivity in the future, just not yet 

1:06:00 Will huge investment in AI create jobs/growth? 

1:07:30 How can we forecast economics if BLS data is corrupted? 

1:11:30 The BLS needs more resources to produce better data 

1:12:00 If government data isn't reliable, what's the alternative? 

1:15:15 The economic impacts of unreliable government data 

1:17:15 If U.S. goes into recession, the world likely does too 

1:18:45 The long term effects of a global race toward protectionism 

1:21:00 US benefitted from globalization, reversing it is a negative 

1:22:00 Brexit the perfect example of protectionism hurting GDP 

1:23:45 U.S. economy bounced back best from Covid 

1:25:00 When will the massive national debt catch up with us? 

1:26:45 Trend lines show a day of reckoning over debt is coming 

1:28:00 U.S. policy will be directly responsible for a recession

1:30:15 Chuck thoughts on interview with Mark Zandi 

1:31:00 Ask Chuck 1:31:15 Have the Reagan Republicans given up? 

1:35:45 Are the modern American oligarchs similar to those of the 1860s? 

1:39:30 Is Trump taking over DC to dictate the results of elections?