Importance of Trust Over Popularity

Chuck Todd digs into the growing crisis of trust in American media and politics, sparked by CBS News pulling a 60 Minutes episode amid controversy and perceptions of corporate and political pressure. He examines how Bari Weiss’s handling of the situation exposed a lack of understanding of television news culture, why 60 Minutes has become the ultimate measure of CBS’s credibility, and how ownership, mergers, and appeasing power have once again put business interests ahead of journalism. The episode also explores troubling signals from the Justice Department’s handling of Epstein-related releases and what they reveal about political favoritism and eroding institutional independence.

Chuck then widens the lens to the political fallout, arguing that Donald Trump squandered his political capital and failed to build a durable coalition, and lays out how cracks in Trump’s coalition are becoming chasms.

Then, Mike Pesca, host of “The Gist” joins Chuck Todd for a wide-ranging conversation about the state of media, technology, and trust at the end of 2025—and where things may be headed next. They dig into how legacy media is being reshaped by new owners, shrinking business models, and audience capture, with a close look at CBS, the Ellisons, and whether disruption is a threat or a lifeline for traditional news brands. Pesca also reflects on the rise of nonprofit journalism, the limits of AI in reporting, and why Congress has largely abdicated its role in regulating both media and tech.

The discussion then turns to the growing unease around AI, gambling, and prediction markets, from bipartisan support for getting smartphones out of schools to fears that unregulated betting is distorting journalism, sports, and public life. Pesca and Todd explore why optimism around AI is collapsing, how insider information can be exploited in everything from sports gambling to political markets, and why many of today’s “innovations” feel eerily similar to past technological panics. The throughline: institutions are lagging behind rapid change, and the cost of that delay is showing up everywhere—from newsrooms to classrooms to democracy itself.

Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment and breaks down the biggest stories in the world of sports. 

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction

04:00 CBS News embroiled with controversy after pulling 60 Minutes episode

04:30 Bari Weiss’s inexperience in TV news is on full display

05:30 Weiss’s made incorrect assumption that everyone saw NYT story

06:45 The perception is the administration leaned on Weiss to kill story

08:00 Too many news executives don’t understand the process

09:30 Trump has complained publicly about 60 Minutes

10:15 Ellison willing to appease Trump in order to get merger approval

11:00 CBS News will be judged entirely on 60 Minutes

12:30 Weiss has lost the trust of the journalists at CBS

13:15 Corporate owned media has once again let the public down

14:00 WaPo’s editorial board completely changed after Bezos bought it

15:00 This event will further erode the public trust in media

16:15 Journalism that’s tethered to popularity will be compromised

17:15 Trust is more important than popularity for journalists

18:45 Corporations won’t let their news divisions interfere with business 

19:30 DOJ frontloaded Clinton/Epstein releases & Trump releases later

20:45 DOJ releases statement that sounds like they’re Trump’s defense attorney

22:45 It’s notable that DOJ only singled out Trump for a defensive statement

24:45 Trump blew his “honeymoon” period in less than a year

25:30 Both Biden & Trump burned their political capitol early

28:15 Trump blew the chance to build a GOP that outlasts him

29:30 Trump didn’t win the 2024 election - Biden/Harris lost it

31:15 Voters don’t like party in power, 2008 was last “Vote for” election

33:00 Biden misinterpreted 2022 results, lots of bad GOP candidates

34:00 Liberation Day destroyed Trump’s goodwill with the public

36:15 The cracks in Trump’s coalition are turning into chasms

38:00 The GOP has been too concerned with appeasing the online right

39:15 Democrats could be having their own “Tea Party” moment

46:45 Mike Pesca joins the Chuck ToddCast

48:15 Rundown of Mike’s many “hustles”

50:00 Is the information ecosystem better or worse at the end of 2025?

51:15 CBS News under Bari Weiss is now selling a different product

52:45 Legacy media could benefit from some disruption

53:30 Weiss gave up working for the Salzbergers to work for the Ellisons

54:15 There’s no money in producing network news

56:30 There was audience capture at the New York Times

57:45 A boring president will make the Ellisons care less about CBS

59:45 David Ellison isn’t ideologically MAGA or even a Republican

1:00:45 Silicon Valley is less ideological, just want less regulation

1:01:30 Ellisons are treating CBS as part of their lobbying budget

1:02:30 A huge part of 60 Minutes popularity is that it airs after football

1:03:15 CBS has brands that will survive even if the network doesn’t

1:04:30 We’re a few years away from local TV affiliates going a-la-carte

1:05:45 Channel numbers are meaningless to younger audiences

1:06:15 Non profits like ProPublica are doing some of the best journalism

1:07:30 AI can’t replace people in the journalism space

1:08:30 NOTUS is the only organization covering DC locally

1:09:00 Historically, American media has been partisan

1:09:45 Big newspapers should have two editorial sections

1:13:15 Imagine if Bezos built an “everything” newspaper like he did Amazon

1:14:45 AI transition will be painful, fear of AI displacement will dominate

1:15:30 New polling shows huge drop in optimism surrounding AI

1:17:00 Sam Altman shocked the world by saying “Please regulate me”

1:18:00 We need more visibility into how AI actually works

1:18:45 The regulators are always too old & removed from new tech

1:19:30 Congress has willingly abdicated their regulatory role

1:21:15 Employees at AI companies express worry it could go very wrong

1:22:15 Getting tech/smartphones out of schools has bipartisan agreement

1:24:00 There have always been panics about major tech change

1:25:00 Sports gambling without regulation has been a disaster

1:27:30 Athletes can easily fix a player prop to make money

1:29:00 Online casinos should have never been allowed to exist

1:31:00 Insider info can easily been cashed in on prediction markets

1:33:00 Will insider trading laws now affect copy editors at publications?

1:34:15 Betting has drastically affected coverage at ESPN

1:35:45 College football playoff selection is totally subjective

1:38:15 Potential fixes to college football playoff selection

1:41:45 Will prediction markets remain legal?

1:43:30 Pandemics make society do crazy things

1:44:30 Online casinos will likely become illegal in the coming years

1:46:45 The states didn’t roll out marijuana legalization the right way

1:54:00 Chuck’s thoughts on interview with Mike Pesca

1:54:45 Trump floats leaving the presidency for “hosting” in social post

1:55:45 Is Trump soft launching stepping down from the presidency?

1:57:00 Ask Chuck

1:57:45 What wing of the party will the GOP lean towards in 2028?

2:04:00 What are the classes you teach like?

2:11:15 How would things be different if H.W. Bush won a second term?

2:16:00 How do we address the erosion of historical education?

2:20:45 Was the country really that united over Garfield’s death?

2:26:15 Sports roundup

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