In their new book, Abundance, journalists Ezra Klein (The New York Times) and Derek Thompson offer a hopeful vision for what the future of the U.S. can look like.

Ezra returns to the show to discuss how his ‘agenda of abundance’ (6:15) is a response to the hollowing out of the middle class (11:26) and the dwindling housing market (16:30). Then, Klein explains how these regulatory inefficiencies have impacted California’s high-speed rail project (27:56), what we can learn from international construction (32:15), and why it’s so difficult to build in Blue states (40:00).

On the back-half, we discuss the future of AI in the workforce (48:48), whether “Abundance” can serve as a prescriptive text for the Democratic Party (1:00:56), the hope he aims to engender in readers (1:08:18), and our path to meaningful progress in 2025 and beyond (1:14:16).

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