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This is our unabridged interview with Max Lucado.

Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply loved--struggling with undiagnosed depression and difficult mood swings; a cheerful and industrious father who modeled stability; and Max's own heavy drinking in his teenage years. 

We also discuss Max's new book, Tame Your Thoughts, rooted in the psychology of thought management alongside biblical principles. As rates of depression and anxiety spike, especially among young people, Lucado’s integration of neuroscience, spiritual reflection, and practical action speaks directly to the needs of a culture wrestling with mental health and personal growth. He shares candidly about his wife’s experience with depression, his own evolving understanding of clinical support, and how brain science—particularly studies around neuroplasticity—has reshaped his approach to spiritual life and leadership.

The conversation also examines the ethics of silence and speech, particularly in the context of evangelicalism and American politics. Lucado explains why he historically avoided political commentary—and why, in key moments, he broke that rule. From criticizing Donald Trump’s character during the 2016 election, to asking public forgiveness at a 2020 Black Lives Matter prayer event, he reflects on the risks and responsibilities involved in public moral witness.

Themes of grace, trauma, conviction, and community intertwine with personal storytelling and spiritual wisdom. It’s an invitation not just to understand Max Lucado better—but to examine the stories, bruises, and beliefs that shape our own lives. How might your past inform your calling? What hidden scripts are shaping your thoughts—and how can they be rewritten?

⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ of our abridged episode with Max Lucado⁠⁠

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No Small Endeavor: Exploring what it means to live a good life, with thought provoking conversations about human flourishing, theology, politics, faith, social sciences, search for meaning, meaning and purpose, practices, common good, truth beauty and goodness, productivity, habit formation, neuroscience, science and religion, social justice, the cardinal virtues, the how of happiness, theology and culture, self development, virtue theory, being human, moral philosophy, and community. Follow @nosmallendeavor

Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow @leeccamp

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